Scottish Borders or Dumfries and Galloway for move from England?

[KievLoverTwo]

Hi all,

I am picking the brain of my almost Glasgow resident friend for opinions, but I thought I'd better ask more folks.

The OH and I would like to move to Scotland. We had kind of settled on the Borders as location (after seeing it on the telly - how very original of us) - firstly, because my OH has always been absolutely infatuated with Scotland, and secondly because we don't really have anything tying us to England anymore. We've been looking at houses for 14 months as well, the English prices are just still far too high for our needs (400-450k for something half decent - due to disability we need around 1200+ sq ft and at least three bedrooms, two of which have to be large doubles).

So, I just wanted to get some opinions on some pros and cons of either location, really, please.

We don't need schools, nor public transport. We don't need a massive town for shopping near us, I'd actually prefer somewhere with a decent butcher, fishmonger, grocer etc, or access to a really decent farm shop within an hour. As long as we can have freezers in a garage they don't even really need to be all that close to us. I think I'd prefer not to be desperately isolated and remote at this point. We've spent 2.5 years being remote in rentals and I do miss people a little bit. His office is in Manchester but he's not all that fussed about what sort of faff it takes him to go in, because it's so infrequent (he tells me Lockerbie has a direct train to Manchester though).

It would be nice to have a little garden but nothing vast.

We're trying to keep costs down because a) we're old and this is our first house, we need to seriously work on our pensions - ages 48 and 42). I don't and can't work, so whilst he earns high, there's one income for retirement planning. We will move with a small amount of savings above 10% deposit*. He's going to get whacked hard for extra tax in moving to Scotland (which I've no problem with, I'm just trying to be pragmatic about the future).

*not moving is not an option; the pair of us are borderline going postal in our current rental and he absolutely will not rent again

We found a house we like in Peebles, I've seen a house I quite like in Coldstream, and one that would just about do for a few years in Kelso (which would have a v low mortgage, but also zero garden and the ground floor is maybe a bit too snug). Then we happened upon D&G whilst looking at where my mate lives, and I can't believe how much cheaper it is than Borders.

So I guess I'm really looking at views of why one location might be better or worse than another and opinions on locations please, really.

I'd happily go further North (and we might end up in the highlands in 10 years' time), but I'm trying to be realistic: there are vast weather differences (we're in NW England), and we should probably ease ourselves into the cold gently! Plus he can always say to work 'well I can get to work quicker from X than I can from our rental' if they object to him moving to Scotland. Which sort of has to be a semi consideration for now, because his industry lost 300k people last year, and are due to lose 150k this year.

Thanks for any and all thoughts.

(I suppose I would be most comfortable with a max budget of 300k due to the tax differences)

Oh, and I loathe new builds with a passion, if that's of any relevance at all :)

(not very good at being brief, am I? Sorry! Thanks again)

The lovely villages on the coast are significantly more expensive

Eyemouth would be cheaper than coldingham , have more facilities and better transport

And much better fresh fish and ice cream😂

Council tax is lower because the SNP has frozen it. This means council services suffer accordingly. It will have to increase at some point

I quite like Castle Douglas as a town in Dumfries and Galloway. Small town, countryside, plenty shops (tesco as well as independent places) and good road out of it.

I've not lived in Kelso in years, it was a cracking wee town in terms of shops and pubs and beautiful river and old town centre. But boy, it was made clear everyone knew you were an outsider. Some folk refused to talk to me and DH or were rude and patronising because we weren't from the town. And this was young folk! It did have the most bonkers night club I've ever been to in my life though.

Peebles may well be better as a Borders town welcoming incomers.

I'd want to make sure I wasn't too far from a main road. Having to travel from Kelso to Edinburgh or down to Newcastle on not-great narrow and windy A roads was not a source of fond memories. If it doesn't bother you then no worries, and I would look at Coldstream (another bustling place, but a bit closer to the coast) in that case.

Added to that, in England, if you start pumping more money into your pension, they lower the amount of tax you pay as a result. That doesn't happen in Scotland

Above statement is wrong OP. Same happens in Scotland too. Pension rules are the same. Just income tax thresholds and rates differ.

Today I learned that leasehold doesn't exist in Scotland. It's been massively putting off the OH considering flats in England. I absolutely love big, period conversion flats, and I'd frankly rather be on one floor because I have a lot of M.E. related pain. So, this might open up other possibilities for us.

How does it work if, say, a roof leaks and someone has to foot the bill?

Oh, and because I didn't already have too many choices in my head, and namely because the only house I really like is in Galashiels (which we haven't completely ruled out yet), the other half has now studied a map of Scotland and decided Perth would be a pretty good location too.

Shakes fists

Opinions, as always, welcome!

Thanks again to everyone for your feedback, it's really helping. I know it doesn't substitute walking the streets on foot, but it's good to have a small number of target areas before you do that.

Perth is an hour more to Manchester than Gala

Re flat maintenance - I've never lived in a flat so ..
I think there is a factor who looks after the general Maintenance for a regular charge

I think it's better regulated than in England

I live in the ground floor flat of a Victorian conversion. We share bills for the roof and any other communal work.

There may be factors in some places but where I live the maintenance of tenement flats relies on the residents paying up when necessary. My friend lives in a top floor tenement flat so suffers roof leaks first, and she has struggled to get money from some. Letting agents in particular can be very reluctant to pay up.

From my experience tenements are not well regulated at all and as a result, many are not as well maintained as they should be.

'My friend lives in a top floor tenement flat so suffers roof leaks first, and she has struggled to get money from some. Letting agents in particular can be very reluctant to pay up.'

BIL had this issue when they discovered dry rot - spent thousands getting it sorted and no end of trouble getting the funds out of other residents, in fact still hasn't had money from some. They don't have a factor and are a mix of owners/renters.

I think he's looked at the lower prices, the distance to both Edinburgh and Glasgow, and decided he just doesn't care enough to worry about that.

Good to hear this now, rather than later, thank you.

We have friends in Morayshire, and it is lovely. Lots of pleasant small towns: Grantown-on-Spey, Elgin and Lossiemouth all have their charms. The A9, which isn't the nicest of roads, is always kept clear of snow because of the distillery lorries. Is flying to Manchester an option?

Is flying to Manchester an option?

Absolutely.

This is why factors are a necessary evil for tenements. An urgent repair like a roof would just get done, and they pursue the owners.
A split house is probably different and I'd think there would be something written in the deeds about repairs?

Id say Perth is a better option, especially if you’re moving and planning to stay as you age. Beautiful countryside too and just nearer things!

Perth and Pertshire was mentioned by PP as it is a good option and we knew that already though you didn't 😁 - it's much more connected for everything really. The SIMD map often gets mentioned on these threads - google it. It gives a good indication about the level of deprivation in an area which is handy if its all unknown.

Wow Perthshire is so cheap! (I live in Edinburgh ..everywhere else seems cheap to me)

I take issue with TerriPie’s comment about Hawick being the drugs capital of the Borders. Hawick has no worse a problem than any of the other towns according to the local (friendly) police. The problem is confined to one or two known families in the housing estates. We moved here 4 years ago and it’s very quiet with good areas for large detached houses including the Terraces, Sunnyside and Fenwick Park. The town has beautiful Wilton park next to the river, two museums, cinema, theatre, music etc. at Heart of Hawick and a good choice of supermarkets. High St has suffered due to loss of large chains but is starting to recover. The architecture is impressive rather than pretty and the surrounding countryside is easily accessible and great for walking and much more attractive than the agricultural flatlands around Kelso in my opinion.

Thanks for this.

Every one of these posts are really helping us to further consider what might suit us.

I've seen a few decent houses in Hawick.

I had a good look at the town (village?) centre around Kelso today; it's full of charm, but I have to say, flat agricultural land is VERY much NOT our thing. It's what we're smack bang in the centre of right now, and it bores the living daylights out of us, as well as keeps us up at night with farm noises, and all the negative connotations of farming country, of which there are more than we expected (and the in-fighting; urgh, people here are SO rude to one another).

It would be lovely to have access to restaurants/cafes in Kelso. But the OH put a call in for a reasonably priced property today and it's already under offer. I suspect that happens a lot in Kelso.

Which streets should I look at for amenities in Hawick, please?

We've been out in the sticks far too long and I feel it's time to return to semi-civilisation.

I've had a look at Galashiels and whilst it's nowhere near as bad as some places the OH and I have lived in England, it reminds me of a cross between two places that I particularly dislike.

It also seems woefully short on shops/amenities.

Melrose is absolutely delightful. It's a lot like some of the very quaint villages in North Yorkshire, only cheaper.

But still, at this point in time, I don't think we can afford a house that's big enough for us there. I can imagine it's one of those places where people can be borderline insufferable because they get to say they live in Melrose? Used to live in a village like that - I found it very entertaining to observe.

I've looked at a lot of houses and got HR reports for Perth. It doesn't help that I don't like new homes but the HRs have the OH biting his nails with fear of woodworm, damp, rot, movement, and so on. Whilst it looks pretty great for facilities, I have a feeling HE would be far better off living in a small village or town where you can walk to most of things, meet some locals (even if you have to 'fight' being an incomer), and not have to drive to get everything/do everything.

So, maybe that's where the focus should lie. Small-ish places.

If you think Perthshire's cheap, feast your eyes on what you can get for 280k in D&G!!

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146009441#/?channel=RES_BUY

(no, we are not going to buy it)

Stranraer is really awful though and the arse end of nowhere, hence the price

Couldn’t agree more it’s cheap for a reason.
The Mull of Galloway is lovely but IMO just to visit and it’s much windier and colder there than the rest of D and G.

Not Dumfries.

Peebles or Jedbrough.