XL bully dogs and Scotland

[CoatOfArms]

Another blinder by our "wonderful" government. I was not aware that the ban on these awful chav beast dogs only applied in England and Wales. No legislation to ban/restrict them in Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67787667

Some dim woman who runs a "bullie rescue" says she has been "inundated". Isn't that just marvellous.

@BigBoysDontCry thank you for doing that, I will do likewise. I really don't want Scotland to only catch up on the back of a tragedy although I fear that is what it will take.

It should have been a blanket ban including Scotland it’s a terrifying prospect that the Scottish government are dragging their heels…I saw one close up and they are killing machines of one turns you stand no chance they are incredibly powerful my blood ran cold!

What the heck I’m speechless 😶more ineptitude but this is dangerous the longer it lasts

Oh, interesting. I've had one response from an SNP and one from a Green - both saying that they want to pursue an evidence-based approach and that they are not sure banning them is the correct course of action (roughly).

I agree that evidence is important, but in this particular instance it's not so much simply about banning a breed as living next to a far larger country that has banned a breed. The predictable result is an influx of dangerous, badly cared-for and unwanted dogs.

So it'll be handbags at dawn again with the SNP and greens overruling, just 'cos. 😡

Not that it'll go to vote because what the people who have to live with the consequences think is immaterial.

The Green's response was long and fairly detailed. It suggested that banning a dog makes it more desirable to the wrong sort of person.

Well, perhaps, but that's not a very sensible argument for a legislator - 'we can't make a law because some people deliberately enjoy breaking laws'. Plus we already have several banned breeds in Scotland, so it's not just this breed we're talking about. Unless they're planning to remove the ban on the other dangerous breeds.

Plus, see above my comment about chihuahuas. Most dogs are at least fight -offable. If a grown adult man can't control a dog, nobody should have one as a pet.

Oh, interesting. I've had one response from an SNP and one from a Green - both saying that they want to pursue an evidence-based approach and that they are not sure banning them is the correct course of action (roughly).

I find this frustrating. There is plenty of evidence nationally across the UK, so them insisting that this evidence (and by evidence, we are speaking of deaths and severe injuries) has to occur in Scotland to be considered.

There's no magical difference to XL Bullies north of the border. And now we have this unintended consequence of all the extra ones being dumped up here - that will certainly accelerate that required evidence.

*It suggested that banning a dog makes it more desirable to the wrong sort of person.

I mean probably, but they could consider the wild notion of actually enforcing the law once they ban them and that would close that particular loophole.

Because that logic leads to some very strange places in terms of crime and society generally.

@ArabellaScott Did the SNP and Greens set out what restrictions they’re planning to put in place in the short term to lower the risk of fatalities and attacks until this specific Scottish evidence emerges?

'what restrictions they’re planning to put in place in the short term to lower the risk of fatalities and attacks'

Nah, none.

Excerpt from the Green response:

'In Scotland, we have already taken steps to move the legislative focus away from the dogs to the irresponsible owners who allow dogs to be out of control in public spaces. Section 10 of the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010 amended the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 so that it became a criminal offence to allow any dog to be dangerously out of control in any place.

In 2021 new requirements also come into force for the licensing of pet vending, animal rehoming, animal shelters and sanctuaries, and the breeding of dogs, cats and rabbits. The Scottish Greens worked to ensure these requirements were fit for purpose and are working in this session to ensure their robust implementation. We are also working to ban the breeding, import and export of dogs for racing, ending greyhound racing in Scotland.

The Scottish Greens would also like to see licensing of all animal breeders and dog owners, the implementation of animal warden schemes, and a system of dog licensing through microchipping.

We need more effective enforcement and early interventions - which bring dogs and their owners to the attention of law enforcement earlier if there is concern about their behaviour. We also need to tackle irresponsible breeders and implement tough sentences to punish and deter those who use dogs to harm other people.'

Well, I guess the current situation is inevitably going to lead to an acceleration of the evidence of the dangers becoming available.

The evidence of harm will be plentiful (including that normal people will curtail their lives due to fear of going outside/using public spaces if these dogs are about) but no dots will be joined and instead we'll get platitudes about Scottish exceptionalism and evil Westminster.

Usually the SNP-Greens prefer policy-based evidence making, do they not?

SNP response excerpt:

'This is something that was raised in FMQs not long before Parliament broke for Recess. The Deputy First Minister, Shona Robison MSP, outlined the Scottish Government position. You can read the full exchange here, but this is the most important part:

We are carefully considering the evidence on XL bully dogs and whether similar changes to ban the breed should be applied in Scotland. Public safety is paramount in our deliberations. Scotland already has a dog control notice regime that is unique in the UK and which is focused on preventing dog attacks from happening in the first place. However, we remain concerned about the reported attacks and deaths due to suspected XL bully dogs.
The UK Government, of course, announced the proposal to ban XL bully dogs without giving any notice to the Scottish Government and with no consultation. Perhaps that was not the most helpful way to proceed.
We are carefully considering the evidence and meeting a range of stakeholders and animal welfare organisations, and we will take forward those considerations as swiftly as we can. I am sure that the cabinet secretary will update Parliament on the matter in due course.

While I appreciate this is not the answer you were looking for, I hope it helps to outline why breed-specific action has not yet been taken as with the UK Government. We are very keen to take an evidence-based approach that makes sense for all who would be impacted and considers the measures already in place in Scotland, and the timescales the UK Government worked to did not allow this consideration to take place.

In the meantime, it is still against the law to allow any dog to be dangerously out of control, and I encourage you and anyone else to report the owner of any suspected dangerous dog if you become aware of one. '

Conservative response excerpt:

'My Scottish Conservative colleagues and I therefore welcome the UK Government’s swift decision to ban this breed, which took effect on 31st December 2023 across England and Wales.

As a result of the SNP Government’s failure to implement a ban in Scotland in lockstep with England and Wales, we are now seeing reports of cross-border smuggling of American XL Bullies, and it remains disappointing that Siobhian Brown MSP, the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, has not provided a timescale as to when these dogs will be banned in Scotland.

As such, the Scottish Conservatives will continue to call on the SNP Government to implement the ban in Scotland.'

My tory response:

Thank you for your message about the situation with XL Bully dogs coming to Scotland after the ban being introduced in England and Wales.

It is the view of the Scottish Conservatives that the ban on XL Bully dogs should also extend to Scotland, and the Scottish Government have created a dangerous loophole in not banning these here. There must be a real concern that, with the number of XL Bully dogs now being taken to Scotland, sooner or later we will have a serious incident with one or more of them. If this happens, the responsibility for it must rest solely at the door of the SNP government for their foolhardy decision on this issue.

Please be assured that this is a matter that the Scottish Conservatives are raising urgently at Holyrood.

So basically no immediate restrictions (or even short term ones…) but plenty of the same ‘Westminster didn’t tell us and so we refuse to do anything on principle even though it’s a devolved matter, because that would mean taking responsibility for Scotland and we prefer to blame Westminster than do that’.

Well, I’m sure they’ll get their evidence in time ☹️

Labour response:

Thank you for writing to me regarding XL bullies.

Labour across the UK agrees that there is a clear case to ban this breed as attacks by XL bullies are causing real concern to people up and down the country.

Under the Dangerous Dogs Act, there is an option for current owners to apply for an exemption certificate which will allow them to keep their pet under more closely controlled conditions, such as ensuring they are muzzled when in public and neutered. This move in legislation shouldn’t unfairly punish responsible owners who have legally been allowed to keep their family pet until now, but it is crucial that these pets are kept safely.

At UK level, Labour is committed to reviewing the Dangerous Dogs Act to ensure that it remains fit for purpose and the list of dangerous breeds is up to date and relevant to the breeds in Britain today.

In terms of Scottish Labour, we do not believe there is a compelling case for divergence between Scotland and the rest of the UK on this issue and we have concerns that delaying a ban could lead to Scotland becoming a vector for the breeding and smuggling of this breed into the rest of the country.

Thank you for taking the time to write to me on this subject, I appreciate the opportunity to hear your views.

I thought Michael Gove had invited ScotGov to also ban the breed so surely its incorrect to say Scot Gov had no notice of the ban ??

Yes it is. But they just can't not lie about everything and anything. I'm sick of the grievance junkies.

The UK Government, of course, announced the proposal to ban XL bully dogs without giving any notice to the Scottish Government and with no consultation.

The SNP are pathetic. They announced the proposal for fucks sake. It's not like they announced it when that guy was already halfway up the M6 with his first van load of dogs. Not sure how much earlier a devolved Government feel they need to be told things?!

Thanks to everyone making noise about this. I'll do the same.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/man-targeted-vigilantes-after-dead-31822636

Hideous. And the SNP won't have seen it coming because they don't see anything coming.

"We've seen evidence of a significant number of attacks from Bully XLs in Scotland due to pop-up rescues. This includes a number of children either attacked or put at risk. One dog has already died due to a dog on dog attack. At least three dogs have had to be put down due to behavioural issues.

Transports of Bully XLs from England to Scotland continue daily."

x.com/BullyWatchUK/status/1744422770325217665?s=20

Oh, god.

It's another one of those things where you really really don't want to be proved right, isn't it. I hope all the children are okay. 😣

That is awful.
XL Bully advocates just don's seem to care about the sweet innocent non fighting pet breeds that are targeted by these maulers, not to mention the children and elderly that are not infrequent targets.

They are bred from Pit bulls crossed with larger types of dog, and the size and strength make them very hard to control by the type of owners that are drawn to them.

The Greens want to concentrate on the owners and not the breed. Why can’t we do both? Ban the breed and ban bad owners from having dogs in the future.

I have seen at least 2 rehomes not far from me. There will be so more that don't put it out there.
Fuck this shit. They need to be banned.

And that idiot with her funds collecting, it must be the Happas kennels as it is know to be in a terrible state.

Instead of a ban we have this https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/6320331/aberdeen-xl-bully-duthie-park/

Hmm. I suspect most dog owners and families will be steering well clear

I'll be getting my popcorn out for this one after warning DS and girlfriend who live in Aberdeen to steer clear.