New income tax rates- more squeeze on the middle

[Pammela]

Thoughts on the new tax rates?! I’m shocked at how little press it is getting and how we just accept being taxed so much more than elsewhere in the UK! We’re in a cost of living crisis and the SNP seems to think that middle earners should contribute almost half of their pay, without the national insurance relief given down south.

Most NHS workers and teachers will now be paying 42% tax bracket.

https://www.gov.scot/news/new-financial-year-heralds-income-tax-changes/

Child benefit is worth nowhere near 8k pa. Unsure where that’s from.

You mention feee prescriptions etc but as we have said above1 they aren’t free. We, as Scottish residents, are paying far more tax than you and other in England. The ‘free’ prescriptions etc don’t make up for the hundreds lost each month.

The pint is people in Scotland are very unhappy with this constant ‘progressiveness’ which basically means taxing middle and higher earners more and more and allowing fiscal drag to take place. So, if we’re complaining about this, then it’s unlikely we’d vote to become independent.

And don’t worry- you’re still paying less tax for similar services- you’re not ‘paying’ for us.

I've seen a figure discussed such as increasing the £40 per child per week child payment. For 3 children this is £480 per month which if extrapolated to net pay would require a salary rise of over approximately £8k to make it worth a pay increase removing your entitlement to it!

This snip, two posts above mine, was the one I referenced. I don't know if it's a reliable figure. I love Scotland so not really being snarky. Just thinking that your government seems to soak you for tax, and delivers "benefits" that don't actually benefit the majority. And I never read of anyone delighted by the health or education services in Scotland...?

UK - 43 per cent don't pay tax ( as of 2019) so Scotland's not an outlier in that respect.

As a taxpayer, I am inclined to resent the freeloaders, especially those I actually know in real life, who are gaming the system and working for cash. Just saying.

I am really hoping that the recent revelations about the SNP will finally have opened some of their supporters eyes and we can perhaps get some politicians- of any variety- who have some intelligence and know how to run an economy.

Scottish child payment is currently £25 per week per child, (three child family £3900 per annum). What I heard mooted was raising income tax higher to enable it to become £40 per child per week (£6200 per annum in a 3 child family). My point was if you were on the cusp of earning enough to lose your universal tax credits and therefore this payment, how much extra would you have to earn to replace this payment? If my understanding of this payment is wrong I apologise.

I fully agree in supporting those that need support however work needs to pay, incentive needs to be there to encourage personal progression and currently I’m not sure that it always does.

I am a big fan of the Scottish child payment but I agree that they’ve not thought enough about incentivising people to go after wage rises, take a risk on a new job or a contract. The pension market badly needs reform too - why you can’t own a pension and have an employee pay in and then port it to any other job is beyond me,
employee based pensions are from the time when people didn’t move around.

Scotland's council tax includes water rates, England's are separate.

@Janedoe82 that doesn’t seem to be the case.

My council tax, band B, Northern English city, £1597
My sister in law, band B, Scottish city, £1546, which includes water and sewerage

Mine is slightly dearer, on top of which I pay water rates. I have a meter, its about another £360 a year, but would be far more if we were a large household.

So my £1597 + 360 = £1957 against her £1546. Over £400 more. Sometimes I wish we could move back!

I think a difference on the council tax front may be in the bandings- houses are often cheaper in Scotland and so relatively low value houses can find themselves in council tax bands which feel quite high compared with the actual house value.

And definitely yes to the system not incentivising work- for us, we take the 54% tax and NI into account when looking at working hours/part time working/overtime etc. It means that even on fairly good wages, additional childcare to enable more working hours no longer makes financial sense in the £43-50k income bracket. So we work part time and say no to overtime. And we buy bikes at 54% off through cycle to work.

And for everyone talking about all the "free" extras up here, Scotland has also been years behind the rUK in providing additional childcare hours the "30" free hours- which for us has been a VERY expensive delay while we've sat here paying out thousands in additional tax over our rUK counterparts. At the same time I'm looking ahead and am not convinced that university will still be free by the time our kids get there, so it feels like we may well fall into a gap where we don't get much in terms of benefit for our family in return for what we are paying out.

It just feels like a hugely unfair squeeze on a group which isn't exactly rolling in money, albeit not needing to live hand to mouth. It is a group where interest rate rises may well have a proportionately high impact too as its a salary band where many folk will be juggling mortgages and childcare expenses (which are also going up fast). It really frustrates me- and we've certainly had the debate in our house about what point we give up and move down south so we're no longer being penalised by our geography.

I'm not convinced free Uni will be a thing much longer either.
I said when my 12 yo was born I didn't think they'd still be free uni in Scotland by the time he hit uni age. And you know what the way Unis are struggling and preferences for English and overseas kids I really cannot see it lasting another 2 or 3 years.

Yousaf has his kids in private school so uni fees will be nothing to him.

@Canyousewcushions while those houses are both Band B, my experience of Band B really means council or x Council houses.

My privately build flat with a double and single bedroom was a higher council tax banding than my mum's big 2 bed council house.

My council tax is £306/m. £3672 per year. So, tbh, yours sounds cheap. Each council has their own banding and prices here- we do live in a more expensive area. But the roads etc certainly don’t seem any better for paying so much council tax.

Scotland was behind in providing the 30 hours free childcare? Behind which country? It's not in place in England.

You must live in a very high band of house?!

It was behind implementing 30 hours- England had it in place years before we did and it kept being put off.

Yes, we do. And we paid a shed load of stamp duty and pay a ton of council tax as well as a lot of income tax.

Only on Scotsnet🤣

Well if you are living in a very oversubscribed area for schooling you can expect class sizes to be maxed out🤷 that's pretty obvious.

My DC class sizes are well within the limits for P1 and P2. It's not in the top ten. They'll get there just the same.

Get where, sorry? It’s up to you to love more remote but other peoples choices are dictated by other things. Having smaller class sizes is very unusual. We have it here for primary 1, then it changes.
Most rural schools now do composite classes to save money too. It’s a funding issue- the govt will cut spending if it can redirect funds.

You beat me to it @Staggie .

They'll get educated just the same as others in Scotland's education system. CfE. It's not perfect but no education system is. They have been lucky with class sizes that's all.

I do have my concerns about uni places as mentioned by PPs. It's a worry for the children in the current school system.

30 hours is in place in England and has been for quite a while but it differs to Scotland you get 30 hours if both parents (or single parent) is working 16 hours minimum at minimum wage and has to be applied for.

Scotland is now 30 hours not dependent on working status but they were delayed in rolling this out by 2-3 years. There were trials in some areas but full roll out wasn't til 2021 and some LA didn't manage to get it in place til the Dec due to issues.

And this is the attitude I’m referencing. The idea that if you’ve worked hard to get out of a council house and have a career and buy a nice house, in a nice area, that you’re then subject to a guffaw and you’re not allowed to have a valid opinion on certain things.

Council tax in the UK is banded from A to H. H is over £4k a year here. In a similar Scottish city, its around £3800, and that includes water charges. More expensive here in the North of England.

@sugarfree, our house is a 3 bedroomed semi, privately built in the 1930s.