New income tax rates- more squeeze on the middle

[Pammela]

Thoughts on the new tax rates?! I’m shocked at how little press it is getting and how we just accept being taxed so much more than elsewhere in the UK! We’re in a cost of living crisis and the SNP seems to think that middle earners should contribute almost half of their pay, without the national insurance relief given down south.

Most NHS workers and teachers will now be paying 42% tax bracket.

https://www.gov.scot/news/new-financial-year-heralds-income-tax-changes/

I agree @Sugarfree23 particularly if you've not got kids, the "extras" we get for free don't justify being out of pocket by a 4 figure sum of money each year! I reckon £25 for an eye test every 2 years and £111 for a yearly prescription pass and that's all I gain for paying over £1000 extra in tax. It is literally only because I enjoy where I live so much and have a good social life here that I am staying.

This! They were striking cus they couldn’t afford to live last month….

A band 6 nurse and above would be in this tax bracket. If they’re single parents, this won’t go very far. 43k after tax works out to be about about 2300/m. So if you have a mortgage, council tax, gas and electric, childcare’s, food etc. then you won’t have a lot left over.

Below band 6 earn less and so are more likely to be the ones you are referencing. Equally though, beyond band 5, you’re losing over 50% in NI and tax.. so what’s the incentive to do all the extra training/stress?!

The disparity between Scotland and England is now so wide and our public services that matter are no better. The most shocking one being lowering standards of education.

I don't think SNP over the last decade have been held to account over what they have actually seriously delivered or not delivered as a government. It's all just indy soundbites.

We're both higher rate tax payers and maxing on pensions given how demotivating the tax threshold are. Which I know some will disagree with but we don't immediately need the cash so would rather see it growing and allowing us to eventually retire from two stressful jobs. I also have decided not to go for future promotions to get even more stress, accountability and very little reward after hitting 47% rate. An element of quiet guitting due to disincentivizing tax policy which basically at an individual level is anti-growth.

I don't mind being a higher rate tax payer but I do mind that the Scottish govt is gleeful about the stealth tax because the rate has been frozen for 7 years dragging more people into it especially with cost of living it should have gone up.

I don't get the argument but you get "free stuff" in Scotland.....its not free it's paid for by taxes and many of the "free" things were "free" prior to Scotland taking on tax powers with the exception of bus travel!

Just to clarify a top increment band 6 nurse would tip into the higher rate tax bracket, not all band 6 nurses will. A band 5 nurse will probably not unless only working night shifts.

I think unless you regularly travel between a variety of areas in both Scotland and England and have experience of the NHS and education in both you can't really say which is better.

Both sides of the border have health and educational standards that IMO are at as good as they should be.

I've had the choice of where to live between them and chose Scotland because of the education system.

I find some aspects of CfE frustrating and am appalled at the recent uni place scandal but class sizes are smaller, DCs start later and with more flexibility, there are no fines for term time holidays, uniforms are cheaper and more flexible, DCs do more subjects for longer, higher education is free.

My DCs are grateful of which system I picked!

Have to plug the missing £600k somehow.

Seriously though, most people are happy to pay more tax if they can see the benefit of that extra tax-take, and feel that they are getting better public services than in other places which have lower tax. But we just are NOT getting better services than other parts of the UK.

And don't start banging on about fucking baby boxes.

Can I ask where you live? We live in a top 10 school area and I’m a teacher. Our class sizes are full- about 30-33. This is the same as England, so I don’t think that’s quite right.

Also if you look at literacy and numeracy rates in Scotland, they’re awful. Far worse than down south who switched to a specific phonics learning for literacy. There is absolutely no nationwide set tracking here, in fact the govt never even released what ‘levels’ looked like. Scotland has opted out of being in the worldwide tables for these because they’re so terrible.

We have political agendas being enforced in schools which are masked as ‘progressiveness’. And nationalist agenda pushing through ‘cultural’ elements of the curriculum. And they’re terrible.

I have no doubt there are issues down south but I could never use education as an example of anything good in comparison.

I don't get the argument but you get "free stuff" in Scotland.....its not free it's paid for by taxes

I never get this either @Scottishskifun
It's not free. We give more money to the Gov to run/provide services for us. In other countries people give less so are left with more of their income to pay for things themselves, Swings and roundabouts One is not better than the other unless you pay nothing into the system in the first place!

Most NHS workers earn over 43k do they? God that’s a laugh

The top 12% earners pay higher rate taxes ? That's not really a squeezed middle it's a squeezed top

Look at the tax cut offs. Professional roles are being taxed 43% which is traditionally considered one of the higher tax brackets. Obviously there’s another but the problem is so few people in Scotland are actually in that, so they’re having to burden middle earners.

It's not 12% it's nearly 20% (19.2%) of those in work - over 500,000 and expected to increase this year from those in work of 2601800.

It's only 12% if you take into account the whole population.
Scotland has a high number of economically inactive people at 23.8% higher then the rest of the UK.

The big problem with it is putting off professions especially Dr's who can pick where they want to work as they are in high demand.

We can't attract GPs for instance and one of the biggest GPs practices in Scotland is handing back from the NHS because it can't attract enough staff (Inverurie medical practice). A part of attracting Dr's is about pay.

Dundee hasn't been able to secure oncologists with people having to travel for treatment again pay and taxes comes into play. All of these things add up to make things worse because of greater taxation.

Can I ask where you live? We live in a top 10 school area and I’m a teacher. Our class sizes are full- about 30-33. This is the same as England, so I don’t think that’s quite right.

I've lived in different places. My DCs have attended high schools in different LA areas.

P1-3 classes all 25 and under. Then mix of composites again no more than 25.

Both had 1 year of 31/3 in upper primary. I agree that's too many.

Smallest class size was 18.

Secondary a mix from 25-30 lower years (fewer in science/practical classes) up to a handful in high classes.

Imo much better than just turned 4yos in England in default classes of 30.

I wouldn't expect Scotland's literacy and numeracy to match England's due to longstanding issues with poverty and deprivation which have more of an impact on outcomes than schools/teachers/what party is dictating education policy.

Those not in work still count - they are the bottom of the income pile !

Yes but the literacy and numeracy rates have dropped year on year within Scotland- forget about elsewhere. The SNP headlined with education for votes and it’s got worse year upon year. So surely you would hope that they then do something to tackle the deprivation etc that you think would be the root cause of this?

Thye have attempted to provide pef funding, targeting those in the lower simd brackets and it’s made no difference. There’s a systemic/cultural issue here and I think it could come from a lack of drive/encouragement.

Teens are given free bus travel, free gym/swim use, schools must direct pupils into further learning/apprenticeships, there are no exclusions..etc

Some of this sounds good, in principle, but chatting to kids who get the bus, instead of walking 10 mins, and who hang about a gym making it unappealing to members of the public to pay. But the main issue is the expectation that they are given these things rather than aspire for those.

Since I started teaching the lack of independent thought and motivation has got so bad. Covid compounded this, and the entitlement is causing a stagnation of ambition amongst many young people.

If they don't work they don't pay tax though and that's not the unemployed rate its economically inactive which is people not seeking employment.

So many kids get the bus 3-4 stops to school instead of walking these days. Is this a good thing???

I wonder how much tax take will increase? I've been pushed into this level and do object to paying 42% plus NI, so I pay into AVCs on top of my workplace pension to reduce my tax and I don't think I'm the only one

Nope because it also means in areas where kids are expected to get the public bus home because they are too far from school. The buses are packed with kids who don't need to be there.

Half price to 18 or even 21 would have made more sense than universal free buses.

I can't remember the details but did one of the bus companies not decide to ban all unaccompanied kids of the buses after 6pm causing issues for older teens getting home from clubs and things. Because they were getting used as a mobile social club.

They're not. DH is a band 6 nurse and is on 10 grand less than that.

I just feel that there is little incentive at the moment in Scotland to work hard and progress. Growth in business and industry doesn't feel like a priority for the Scottish government. Health inequality needs to be targeted and a focus on reducing the numbers of people of working age who are economically inactive.

I would be interested to see a chart of the actual net income when benefits are included such as child payment, child benefit etc. I've seen a figure discussed such as increasing the £40 per child per week child payment. For 3 children this is £480 per month which if extrapolated to net pay would require a salary rise of over approximately £8k to make it worth a pay increase removing your entitlement to it!

I'm currently questioning whether it is worth pursuing any further promotion as tax liability will be 54%( with NI and tax) on anything I earn. It just doesn't feel worth it for the extra stress and responsibility. It very very much feels currently that professional level challenging work with extra responsibility does not result in net financial gain.

I don't want to wade in here, living in SW of UK, but if child benefit is worth £8K pa, presumably on top of unemployment/UC benefit and some housing benefit, and there's free prescriptions and social care, and... then some people are just going to top up their income on the black economy. Or am I just cynical? Otherwise, how does 39% of Scotland's population not pay income tax? As a person living in Cornwall, which is another of the poorest regions of the UK, but without any of the freebies, subsidising the Barnett Formula seems like a shabby deal for the rUK. Get independence done.