Scottish teachers strikes

[museumum]

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

Which band do nurses enter after qualifying?

They enter on a 5 - but teachers pay scales are equivalent to a 6.

B5 pay scale (where most nurses enter and remain) - 28384-35120
B6 - 352522-43286 (this is after the recent pay award)

Teachers (after probationer year) 33729-42336

That is my point, Band 5 nurses are underpaid and their payscales should reflect those of teachers.

I don't disagree (for some nurses) - but it would mean that B6's (the teachers' equivalents) would then move up £10K, which is unsustainable. It's also not really relevant to this thread which is about teachers' strikes for a pay award which is well in excess of their equivalent in the NHS (I don't know anything about other public sector workers, so don't know what their equivalents are there)

*their B6 equivalent in the NHS

The pay award that teachers have been offered isn’t more though. The majority of teachers were offered 5%.

I know it's not more - we discussed that earlier in this thread.

What is a B6 and why is it "equivalent" to being a teacher, in your opinion?
I'm not familiar with NHS roles

Equivalent in terms of salary (which is factual, not 'in my opinion').

If you want to read more about what a B6 does in the NHS and decide whether you think it's equivalent in terms of role content then you could take a look at the various roles here and see what you think jobs.scot.nhs.uk/ (filter by B6)

Band 5 is new graduates & band 6 is a promoted post - the vast majority will stay at 5 or 6.

7 is a leadership/management role - think of lead nurse for a specialty eg diabetes or ICU. Occasionally a trust-wide specialist nurse post eg endoscopy, stoma will be a 7 - but again many of these are 6's.

A 7 is probably roughly equivalent in role terms to a principal teacher - so £43442-£50508 in the NHS v. £46158-£59571 in teaching.

I'm not following the logic of picking a job based on it being another public sector job on a similar pay scale, and then saying because there is a job on a similar pay scale who aren't getting an inflationary pay rise, that neither should teachers. They both deserve the rise. There is no link between the salaries of nurses and teachers - they have their own pay and conditions, negotiated by their own negotiating committee (the SNCT in our case) and trade union members are welcome to accept or reject any offers that come along.
There should be no conflict between healthcare staff and education staff - we are not eachother's enemy.

The argument is that in comparison to other public sector professions teachers are already very well paid. Very few job on £42k with no promotion, after 5yrs in the job.

5% on already good salary is a good offer imo.

Strike away, that's your right but don't expect support from the parents of the children you teach who may well be earning half of that with no payrise in sight.

I don't expect support but have received so much support from parents, and also from members of the public when we've been on picket lines. There seems to be an idea that if you are not promoted it is a sign of stagnating or not having increased in skills and value in schools. There are very few promoted posts: far fewer than when I began teaching. We also don't have the additional payments for extra responsibilities that teachers in England can apply for.
I'm still wondering why my job is worth 10% less than it was last year.

What @Invisimamma said - teaching is already very paid in comparison to similar level roles. Striking for 10% (which is an unreasonable demand imo) when your equivalents received just over half that isn’t going to improve standards in schools or do anything of the other things claimed on this thread - or do your cause much good.

But working in nhs and I’m education are equivalent roles. They’re totally different sectors..
You wouldn’t be able to use this as a comparison because the roles are so vastly different. I really don’t see the link except that everyone is employed by the government.

There seems to be an idea that if you are not promoted it is a sign of stagnating or not having increased in skills and value in schools.

That is the same in most careers, you get better at your job as you get more experience, but it is still the same job and you will hit a pay ceiling, if you want more you aim for promotion which might require sacrifices such as a move of location or change jobs. Teachers are not at all unusual in this aspect.

There is no link between the salaries of nurses and teachers

Of course there is - I (the taxpayer) pay both salaries.

Yes, equivalent roles - and so while they are in different sectors for very obvious reasons there should be parity across the public sectors for these equivalent roles. So far I haven’t seen anything which sets out why a teacher should get a 10% pay increase from the public purse compared to their equivalent in the NHS who received 6.5%.

I had a wee play around with some numbers:

Unpromoted teachers salary: £28113 (probationer) - £42336, 35 hour week. 39 week year.

Hourly rate, equivalent: £20.59- £31.02

Remembering all nurses are now expected to be degree educated. Band 6 and above will usually have undertaken additional study, and band 7s generally have managerial experience such as a ward with staff of +12 and budgetary responsibility. Or increased clinical responsibility such as a masters, be independent prescriber etc.

Band 5 Nurses Pay scale: £28384- £35365.
37.5 hour working week. 35 days holiday rising to 41 days after
10 year.

Hourly rate: £16.82( bottom scale lowest holiday entitlement)- £21.43 ( top of the scale, highest holiday entitlement)

Band 6: £35522-£43286.

Hourly rate ( assuming 10 years service, holiday entitlement!) : £21.52- £26.23

Band 7: £43422- £50506 ( assuming 10 year service)

Hourly rate: £26.32 - £30.60

Bearing in mind these figures are based on the nursing salary inclusive of this years pay award.

An unpromoted teachers hourly rate is higher than that of a top increment band 7 nurse.

I cannot support the teaching strike based on call for higher income, I can and will however support it for improved conditions and demands for salary/ enhancements for areas with recruitment issues.

I fully accept that teachers work additional hours, nurses also do.

If my maths is wrong or misleading I apologise I've just worked 48 hours in the last 6 days and stayed an hour over my time tonight

@scunnerednurse - I made this point earlier in the thread (not as much details as you have provided) & was poo-pooed for it.

There is no way on earth that the Scottish government is going to give teachers a 10% rise.

And fairly soon teachers will have lost more on unpaid strike days than if they had accepted a lower pay rise (in line with other professions).

Which the SG is just waiting for them to realise.

You have my sympathy - my daughter is a paediatric nurse, 23 years old, qualified for 2 years, B5. Often the senior nurse on duty looking after children with life limiting conditions, firefighting staffing issues and complaints from parents. 13.5 hour shifts (or longer if there’s an issue), 27 days A/L, has worked the last 2 Christmases, no protected time for admin etc. It’s very tough but she’s v good at her job and enjoys it (for now).

You're taking on board my point, that there has been a big change in the structure of schools that has led to far more teachers being stuck on the main grade scale for their full careers. In my teaching lifetime - no more APTs, no more subject PTs, no more Senior Teachers, no more Chartered teachers.
I'm not going to fall into the trap of debating with nurses who deserves the biggest pay rise - we all do. There's no justification for claiming that teachers need to be paid the same as a random role in the NHS. It is also not the fault of the teaching unions if other unions/members have accepted a lower pay increase.
I hate calling it an increase anyway - even if we got 10% tomorrow I'd still be worse off than I was a year ago.
It's only Wednesday and I've already worked over 35 hours.

I’m sure it will come as no surprise that teachers are not the only ones stuck on their pay scale - again, you’re not unique in that.

No-one is saying that you need to be paid the same as a random NHS role - what I (and others) are saying is that when they are equivalently paid roles (equivalent, not identical) then the public purse should offer the same pay increases to the equivalent pay scales. Teachers are striking for a pay deal their unions won’t achieve - and why should they.

Have you never heard of compromise? I take it you are not a union negotiator?!