Scottish teachers strikes

[museumum]

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

Ahhh - so the plan is to strike, and then strike some more, and then strike a bit more, and then eventually accept the same as increase as equivalently paid NHS staff - which is what you were going to end up with anyway? And in the process you’ll lose a whole wodge of money and end up worse off than you would have been if your unions had put a reasonable pay demand on the table and not taken you out on strike?!

It isn't the fault of the teaching unions / teacher that other groups have accepted lower percentage rises but the point is that teachers / teaching unions are, imo, being unrealistic in the current climate.
And whilst posters are saying that roles in the NHS / teaching / other public services shouldn't be compared, it might be good to remember that they are all paid out of the same, publicly financed and limited, pot. Somebody has to compare them and decide who gets what.

@MistressIggi "random role in the NHS" is a rather derogatory phrase. Everyone in society has a contribution to make, and valuing contribution that is surely a key role in an educator. From mortuary technician, to porter, to perfusionist, podiatrist each person is vital.
The pay rise that I have received was imposed by the Scottish government, my union did not accept it.

@scunnerednurse you're choosing to view that as derogatory, it wasn't meant that way and in none of my posts have I said anything negative at all about nurses or the NHS.
Which could not be said for how some people on the thread have spoken about teachers.
Yes of course, @SirChenjins what I mean by a compromise is asking for 10% and then accepting 5%, there couldn't be any other numbers between those two figures.
The government knew the teachers were looking for a restorative pay settlement over a year ago; when we accepted a very low pay deal for the previous year. I think the "pot" allocated to public sector pay simply isn't big enough, but my response to that is to say we're going to need a bigger pot.
There isn't only one way to run a country, to raise money, to prioritise spending.

Yes of course, @SirChenjins what I mean by a compromise is asking for 10% and then accepting 5%, there couldn't be any other numbers between those two figures

Of course, if you think back to our earlier discussion the figure I quoted for teachers' equivalent salaries in the NHS was an uplift of 6.5%. There you go - that's another number between 5 and 10.

Of course we need a bigger pot - but given there isn't one available at the moment, the public pot can't pay one public sector one figure and give teachers 4.5% higher 'just because'. All that will do is create further problems in a few months time when the next pay negotiations begin, something the SG rightly wants to avoid. Perhaps the 5% offer to teachers is their way of bringing about parity across equivalent paid roles - that would make sense.

*3.5% obvs!

Can't believe the pay offer has been rejected...11.5% over two years. For goodness sake...more strike days ahead then

I don't believe it either @treelined76. It was pointed out on the radio this morning that teachers are already in the richest 7% of Scots, and the proposed deal would have seen a new teacher, potentially still in their 20s, making over £47k after a few years! They really are on another planet if they believe they're poorly paid.

I actually believe it's political. I'll be shot down for stating so but was quite disgusted at focusing on closing schools in certain constituencies.

when are the next strikes to be held? Are there going to be any over exams?

Can't blame teachers for rejecting the offer...we haven't been asked! EIS rejected it without a ballot. Next strikes are 28th Feb and 1 March then 2 in April depending on area. Before exams

Our schools are being targeted, so will be shut 4 days in Feb and another 4 days in March. Its 6 days of targeted strikes just for a handful of schools in our constituency, and 2 days of national strike affecting all schools in the local authority.

I think its pretty poor show considering its depriving high school students of nearly 2 weeks teaching time just before exams. My DN is already stressed about prelims and now she's even more stressed. And her school piles on the pressure to maintain its rating as it was top 10 in the country in 2022.

My DC are primary so for them its more of a childcare headache but its still a pain. I can't take another 8 days off work.

It’s absolutely ridiculous - I hope teachers who don’t agree with their Union rejecting this v generous offer without a ballot have cancelled their subscriptions and moved to another union.

I also hope to the gods that the SQA are taking this disruption by the teachers into account when awarding grades later this year.

It seems like a good offer to me. My daughter is losing 8 days school over the coming 3 weeks in an exam year. I was in support of the strikes but this is a good offer that most industries would jump at.

In what world is this a 'very generous offer'? It is a minimum 4% pay CUT for 22/23, and likely a 5% pay CUT for 23/24. You cannot seriously believe that a 9% pay cut is a 'very generous offer'.

This is still a huge real terms pay cut. If you value education you should want well-paid, intelligent, passionate professionals in front of your children.

Yes, someone will reach the top of the pay scale in their 20's... that is part of the problem. Someone with 30 years experience will also be there! This is why we cannot recruit or retain staff, especially in STEM subjects. The pay is just not comparable to industry with a few years experience

Feel free to apply - www.strath.ac.uk/courses/postgraduatetaught/primaryeducation/

If it looks very good to you, feel free to apply - www.strath.ac.uk/courses/postgraduatetaught/primaryeducation/

Applying is one thing, getting a place is another - they are not lacking applicants for teacher training!

1. It is an excellent offer in comparison to equivalents in other parts of the public sector. Everyone is facing a 'real term cut', although with the deflation that is apparently coming next year we may find ourselves in a very positive position.
2. Teachers are not the only ones who find themselves 'stuck' at the top of their band for years - you're not some special breed. B5 nurses earn almost £20K less at the top of their scale, for comparison.
3. There is no shortage of people applying for teaching - it's never been short of applicants.

*apologies, £15k.

@SirChenjins pretty much sums it up for me. I don't see why teachers should get some kind of special treatment when they are already better paid than equivalent NHS workers, and are already in the richest 7% of Scots.

Incidentally, while all workers are important for society, if there were no Drs we'd be screwed. If there were no teachers, well, we'd be back where we were during the pandemic (which was many people's experience whether you'd like to admit it or not). Important certainly, but so essential they deserve more than other groups of workers? No.

You wouldn’t be back where you were in the pandemic..the backbone of education was in place and long term curriculum planning was also already in place.

It does demonstrate the value placed on education by many though. One minute people are so concerned about missing school and strike days, the next teachers don’t matter at all because everyone because a teacher during the pandemic..

The government, by dragging out the offer until so close to the next years offer is why this one looks much more desirable. I do agree that both together sounds relatively decent. But, I again, don’t see why it is continuously conflated with any other public sector role on a similar pay bracket.

@Michellexxx I didn't say education or the role of teachers wasn't important - quite the opposite in fact. A core curriculum may have been in place during lockdowns but it is a fact that many of us had to take on some teaching duties in addition to our other jobs. I had primary children who couldn't work independently or self motivate and I needed to sit with them for a lot of time because obviously a teacher wasn't present to do it. It was far from ideal and I don't imagine for a moment that my 'teaching' was a good as a professionals, but it was good enough in that situation. As a fairly educated person as most parents are, I can have a decent stab at teaching the basics if a curriculum was provided. Could I have done the job of a Dr or nurse during that time? Absolutely no way, that is much more specialised, and frankly more important. So do I think that teachers who are already paid more than equivalent NHS staff deserve an even bigger percentage rise on top of this already excellent salary? Sorry, no. That was my point. And no, I'm not an NHS worker so have no skin in the game here, I just know which I value more.

Because there is a benchmark - and without going round in circles with this, there has to be some kind of comparison with other similar roles when setting public sector pay deals that are paid for from the public purse. So, if a role involves similar levels of qualifications, accountability, CPD, registration, responsibility and so on then it's reasonable to expect there will be some level of parity.

I have the 'joy' of living in one of the seats that are being targeted for extra strikes and so my kids are off 3 days next week. 🥲