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Original poster

Scottish teachers strikes

591 replies

museumum · 28/01/2023 10:57

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

OP posts:
Fluffyowl00 · 31/01/2023 22:33

I don’t think the strikes will work. We are two maths teachers down. We just can’t recruit. Can’t think why.

Scottish teachers strikes
Invisimamma · 31/01/2023 22:45

littleroad · 31/01/2023 19:02

I’m in a position now that almost everything in my room belongs to me. School provide jotters and basic stationery. That’s all. I am expected to have a calm down corner and do. It’s all funded by me as there’s no budget for it. We should have a stimulating library. I do and it’s all mine as we have no budget for it. No paint in school so I bought mine. Play is important for all Primary kids. I agree. Yet again I have funded it all. Do you see the pattern here? Teachers have been funding education for years. However it’s now so much worse. Education has been grossly underfunded for years. I can’t keep doing this. My own family can’t afford for me to do it anymore.

Stop doing it then, nobody is asking you or expecting you to do this. Same with all the school shows and other 'extras.' Do what's in your contract and no more.

I'd like to know where all these £40k a year jobs are, that ex-teachers think they'd walk into when give up teaching, because the pay and conditions are so terrible in teaching.

Blueisthecolor · 31/01/2023 22:45

I don't blame them. Not sure it will get them far though.

If they announce more and more days, I will start to get quite pissed off as the kids have already had a lot of time off school. They had days before Christmas and then a day right after they went bk to school and our second one this year is Friday. I work in finance it's month end so I can't take time off so she'll be stuck at home bored with me trying to work. I can be flexible and take a longer lunch or a few hours off but it wld mean catching up on the evening. Not what I want to be doing on a Friday night!

Heli1copter · 31/01/2023 22:45

@michellexxx I don't know what extras my DC teachers do/don't do, I'm not in the classroom to see them. Whatever teachers do is for their pupil's benefits not parents.

I'm sure all teachers work hard but so do thousands of other professions. Where is all this extra money going to come from? We'd all like a payrise, life is tough for everyone.

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 23:00

Michellexxx · 31/01/2023 21:02

Doctors and lawyers only need one degree too, so I hope they don’t expect anymore pay in the near future..

GP: 5-6 year medical degree, 2 years foundation training, 3+ years specialist training, MRCGP assessment consisting of knowledge and skills assessments (costing £1500, 1 in 4 fail), then 250 credits worth of CPD and revalidation every 5 years. In order to practise they must have professional indemnity insurance because mistakes could kill someone.

Michellexxx · 31/01/2023 23:04

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 23:00

GP: 5-6 year medical degree, 2 years foundation training, 3+ years specialist training, MRCGP assessment consisting of knowledge and skills assessments (costing £1500, 1 in 4 fail), then 250 credits worth of CPD and revalidation every 5 years. In order to practise they must have professional indemnity insurance because mistakes could kill someone.

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I am very aware of this..my husband is a doc.

The post in in retort to the several “you only need a degree to be a teacher, so they don’t deserve more. It was an ironic tone..

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 23:12

How is striking for increased wages going to improve my child’s education?

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 23:13

Michellexxx · 31/01/2023 23:04

I am very aware of this..my husband is a doc.

The post in in retort to the several “you only need a degree to be a teacher, so they don’t deserve more. It was an ironic tone..

Show quote history

So you agree doctors are not only a degree (or a degree and a years probation)?

ProseccoOnIce · 31/01/2023 23:30

Surely there must come a point where the teachers are losing more pay on strike than they would have gained by accepting a slightly lower offer?

I think that is what the government are banking on?

If you look at the hourly rate (adjusted for annual leave/school holidays) a teacher is earning far more than a band 5 nurse.

headache · 31/01/2023 23:51

This week in my school none of the teachers have had their NCCT (their 2 1/2 hours out of class planning time that is part of our contract). This is the second week running. This is due to staff absences caused by sickness, stress and being hurt by a pupil.

MistressIggi · 01/02/2023 00:12

ProseccoOnIce · 31/01/2023 23:30

Surely there must come a point where the teachers are losing more pay on strike than they would have gained by accepting a slightly lower offer?

I think that is what the government are banking on?

If you look at the hourly rate (adjusted for annual leave/school holidays) a teacher is earning far more than a band 5 nurse.

Hourly rate 😂😂

MistressIggi · 01/02/2023 00:16

I think there are false comparisons being made. You can't just look at what another profession accepted as a pay rise this year, as if this year is a stand alone - teachers have seen year after year of pay erosion and those old enough to remember know how much better our pay used to be. There also used to be far more promotion opportunities than there are now. I don't advise young people to go into teaching any more, and I used to.

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 00:16

headache · 31/01/2023 23:51

This week in my school none of the teachers have had their NCCT (their 2 1/2 hours out of class planning time that is part of our contract). This is the second week running. This is due to staff absences caused by sickness, stress and being hurt by a pupil.

How would striking for increased pay help that?

VioletLemon · 01/02/2023 00:21

Shelefttheweb · 28/01/2023 16:37

I think part of the problem is the offers that have been made are not funded by the Scottish Government so have to come out if school budgets?

Education isn't funded in that way.

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 00:23

MistressIggi · 01/02/2023 00:16

I think there are false comparisons being made. You can't just look at what another profession accepted as a pay rise this year, as if this year is a stand alone - teachers have seen year after year of pay erosion and those old enough to remember know how much better our pay used to be. There also used to be far more promotion opportunities than there are now. I don't advise young people to go into teaching any more, and I used to.

These aren’t false comparisons. These are exactly the sort of comparisons that are made in equal pay cases - where a job dominated by women is equivalent to another dominated by men. Though I agree it is not about different % pay rises. It is about total pay. If one job is being paid disproportionately more than another job of similar skill/demand then the same percentage increase in wages will increase the disparity.

MistressIggi · 01/02/2023 00:26

When I watch my salary and hence my lifestyle going down year after year I don't think "look, there's someone else in that other job with similar skills to me getting paid less". I think, why am I working harder than ever and getting paid less?
And quite rightly unions support the workers who are their members. I don't have to wait for other jobs to get the pay they deserve before taking action over mine.

VioletLemon · 01/02/2023 00:28

ProseccoOnIce · 29/01/2023 17:06

In general, I think the media reporting about strikes is very misleading.

There's so many falsehoods about nurses pay rises (only mentioning the bottom of the scale who get a large rise) & giving "average" salaries & making out that everyone can get to band 7 or 8A - when the reality is very different.

Again, I haven't seen much publicity about the teachers pay rises coming from school budgets.

Little about the terrible working conditions & patient safety in the NHS.

Or assaults on teachers.

Or Paramedics having to stay back 2 hours as they have started on a call & can't leave - can you imagine that with childcare?

It all seems very biased to me & only focusing on pay, without looking at conditions.

You're right, the media are really just pandering to the Tories.
It's them that are to blame after 12 years of austerity.

Teachers in Scotland have missed out 50K over last decade. They are asking for reinstatement of the salary rate they signed up for on training.

Does society want bright, reflective capable people who will stay in education teaching their children? All public sector needs inflation linked pay, it's completely reasonable. Who is going to volunteer over a year for experience, study for 4 years for honours degree, complete a year's post grad and a year's probationary programme for anything less than a professional salary?!!!!

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 00:34

VioletLemon · 01/02/2023 00:21

Education isn't funded in that way.

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Education is paid for from money’s available to councils. That comes from council tax and the Scottish government (plus a few extras). If an increase in teachers pay is agreed then that would have to come from the pot of money available to councils. The vast majority of money the councils have must be spent on certain things (often mandated by government) so the ability to move things between budgets is very limited. Council fuel bills are also going up. So unless the Scottish government give councils extra money to fund increases in teachers pay it is likely to come out of the councils education budgets.

VioletLemon · 01/02/2023 00:36

littleroad · 31/01/2023 19:02

I’m in a position now that almost everything in my room belongs to me. School provide jotters and basic stationery. That’s all. I am expected to have a calm down corner and do. It’s all funded by me as there’s no budget for it. We should have a stimulating library. I do and it’s all mine as we have no budget for it. No paint in school so I bought mine. Play is important for all Primary kids. I agree. Yet again I have funded it all. Do you see the pattern here? Teachers have been funding education for years. However it’s now so much worse. Education has been grossly underfunded for years. I can’t keep doing this. My own family can’t afford for me to do it anymore.

Please be resolute in withdrawing your labour and ABSOLUTELY stop funding your classroom. Some unions are supporting action Short of action, usually much more disruptive over time. The strikes are obviously relating to pay but unions have ongoing campaigns on T&C's. Please stick to your agreed hours too.

Michellexxx · 01/02/2023 07:26

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 23:13

So you agree doctors are not only a degree (or a degree and a years probation)?

Show quote history

Neither are teachers if you must be pedantic. You have entirely missed the point I was making by using that as an argument- I’m not arguing that many professions have a degree as baseline then a lot of cpd etc on top. It was an exaggerated, emotive argument which follows the basis of what previous posters were saying, hence your emotive response. We actually teach that to pupils..

But I’m not sitting here dictating what others should get paid.

Do people also realise there has been one offer which was less than what the nhs accepted? That’s it. Nothing else. I’m fairly sure most teachers would accept another offer which was increased to nearer 7-8%. But the government aren’t even communicating. There were months before the rejected offer and the first strike. The Scottish govt just decided to ignore it.

liveforsummer · 01/02/2023 07:30

museumum · 28/01/2023 10:57

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

It seems the same with everything- strikes, snow, paying for carrier bags. Huge uproar compared to meh, get on with it. Yes I'm not sure if it helps the teachers when people just get on with it with little complaint. People are used to dealing with childcare problems due to covid

SirChenjins · 01/02/2023 07:56

Michellexxx · 01/02/2023 07:26

Neither are teachers if you must be pedantic. You have entirely missed the point I was making by using that as an argument- I’m not arguing that many professions have a degree as baseline then a lot of cpd etc on top. It was an exaggerated, emotive argument which follows the basis of what previous posters were saying, hence your emotive response. We actually teach that to pupils..

But I’m not sitting here dictating what others should get paid.

Do people also realise there has been one offer which was less than what the nhs accepted? That’s it. Nothing else. I’m fairly sure most teachers would accept another offer which was increased to nearer 7-8%. But the government aren’t even communicating. There were months before the rejected offer and the first strike. The Scottish govt just decided to ignore it.

Show quote history

Perhaps the fairest deal would be the equivalent NHS deal which for an equivalent teacher salary was 6.24%. 10% is a ridiculous demand - and certainly not worth striking over, given that other equivalent public sector workers haven't had anything like that.

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 08:58

SirChenjins · 01/02/2023 07:56

Perhaps the fairest deal would be the equivalent NHS deal which for an equivalent teacher salary was 6.24%. 10% is a ridiculous demand - and certainly not worth striking over, given that other equivalent public sector workers haven't had anything like that.

Show quote history

But is it the fairest? If we were to apply equal pay laws for sex to the comparison between the nhs and teachers then is it equal pay for equal work? Or should nhs staff receive a significantly higher pay rise to bring them up more on par with teachers? A 7% pay rise for a 5-year qualified band-5 nurse would give them a ~£2300 pay rise, a 7% pay rise for a 5-year qualified teacher would give them ~£3000 pay rise.

ProseccoOnIce · 01/02/2023 09:16

I think that is why the government are in no hurry to settle the pay dispute for teachers - their starting salary is already above average.

They are just going to let it run & it will come to the point where teachers will have lost more in unpaid strikes than they would have gained with a pay rise.

The SG are sitting back & letting it play out.

SirChenjins · 01/02/2023 09:38

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 08:58

But is it the fairest? If we were to apply equal pay laws for sex to the comparison between the nhs and teachers then is it equal pay for equal work? Or should nhs staff receive a significantly higher pay rise to bring them up more on par with teachers? A 7% pay rise for a 5-year qualified band-5 nurse would give them a ~£2300 pay rise, a 7% pay rise for a 5-year qualified teacher would give them ~£3000 pay rise.

Show quote history

A B5 is not equivalent to a teacher's salary scale - it's a B6.