Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Original poster

Scottish teachers strikes

591 replies

museumum · 28/01/2023 10:57

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

OP posts:
MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 08:15

I feel so supported.

GoldenOmber · 31/01/2023 08:36

Scottish parent, not a teacher, but a public sector worker whose union voted overwhelmingly in favour of a pay settlement less than the one teachers rejected.

I would like the whole education budget to be better funded. I don’t think it’s all about pay, but pay is of course still an important part of being able to recruit and keep good teachers and other school staff. And I do in general support the right of all workers, in every sector, to collectively bargain for better conditions. And I think our current SNP government has dropped the ball on education for year after year.

That said… many of the views on pay I’ve heard from teachers seem a bit naive (a 10% pay rise across all public sector workers wouldn’t have to mean cuts elsewhere? reeeeeallly?), and the EIS in particular has shot itself in the foot w/r/t the value of children being physically in class to learn over the past few years. So, mostly just rolling my eyes at the inconvenience and hoping it’s all resolved soonish.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 31/01/2023 09:59

I wouldn't say there is a lot of parental support locally for strikes. Most people recognise that teachers are already very well paid for a profession that only requires a degree and are much better off all round that many in the private sector or the health and social care sectors. Sometimes I think teachers have lost track of just how comparatively well off they are - if they manage to stay employed for 5 years (not even going for promotion) they'll automatically be paid more than most PhDs in the research sector. No-one is getting inflationary pay rises, everyone has less in real terms, and I'm sorry but I don't think teachers deserve some kind of special consideration on this. If they were striking for more classroom support, or action on disrupted learning, I'd be right behind them but they're not. As above, more money in their already very good pay packets might actually mean LESS in the pot for the things that are probably the priority.

For us personally it's a bit annoying but not so much that I'd contact an MSP about it. The kids lost SO much school over the last couple of years, when they were actually closed for long stretches and then with all the COVID isolation nonsense, that tbh a day here or there is nothing. It is a shame that the children now have the firm impression that education isn't that important (because if it was, they wouldn't have been at home every time someone sneezed), but given how much of a hit they've already taken, this won't make a dent.

MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 10:21

a profession that only requires a degree
It requires a degree, a postgraduate teaching diploma for secondary (and many primary), membership of a professional body (the GTC) and ongoing professional development of one full week every calendar year, in addition to another week of inservice training.

MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 10:23

No-one is getting inflationary pay rises, everyone has less in real terms
This isn't true.

Regarding lockdowns and covid isolations, some parents seem to be forgetting that work was set by teachers during this time and absolutely no work will be set during any periods of industrial action - which I expect will ramp up significantly in the spring given the complete lack of movement from the government.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 31/01/2023 10:28

Apologies for not mentioning the post grad diploma. Many professions do CPD. I’m afraid I still think teachers pay is very good for the level of qualification required.

Spring23 · 31/01/2023 10:29

Reckon govts are gambling on a recession stalling inflation soon, the signs don't look good.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 31/01/2023 10:31

Work was set but there was little follow up, and unless the children had a parent willing and able to sit with them all day (in primary particularly) very little was achieved. One day off for strike action is still much less disruptive to us.

MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 10:37

You are entitled to your opinion re qualifications. I haven't claimed that doing CPD is something exceptional, just that there's more to it than "just" a degree.
Your lockdown experience is personal, and doesn't correspond with the level of work and feedback that I was involved in. One of the busiest times of my career and I hated it.
A one day strike won't cause much disruption but we will reach the 7th day by the end of next month with more to come. And as much as it pains me I cannot support my Higher or National classes during this time.

LaughingLemur · 31/01/2023 13:24

I support the strikes, as do lots of people locally seeing the support they received on the picket line at the last strike. Teachers definitely deserve the pay rise that they are asking for when you think about just how much extra work they do as well as teaching all day. We need teaching to be an attractive profession or we won't be able to get subject specialist teachers in the years to come as no one will want to train eg as a science teacher when they can earn much more in industry.

Michellexxx · 31/01/2023 14:22

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 31/01/2023 10:28

Apologies for not mentioning the post grad diploma. Many professions do CPD. I’m afraid I still think teachers pay is very good for the level of qualification required.

There are people in the private sector on huge pay packets who have absolutely no qualifications, so I don't really see this as a valid argument.

It is always so interesting when people, who don’t work as teachers, think that they know what the job entails, and so, what pay teachers ‘deserve.’ You don’t hear people declaring how much an accounts manager or sales associate should be paid..yet everyone believes they know how much public sector workers ‘deserve.’

It does also seem people are unwilling to listen to the reality of being a teacher. We already can’t get subject specialists, parents complain about expectations of teachers and class sizes are huge. and literacy rates terrible.

Yet teachers should manage and improve this on the salary decided by parents who are in a different sector.

SauMore · 31/01/2023 15:24

There are people in the private sector on huge pay packets who have absolutely no qualifications, so I don't really see this as a valid argument.

I actually don't think it's helpful to compare pay scales. I often hear teachers saying how much more they could earn with their degree in private sector.
But teaching IS largely public sector and that is the reality. So if you want to "compare" then it needs to be with other public sector roles requiring similar levels of qualifications and professional training. So social workers, local authority civil engineers, health visitor, speech therapist etc

And as a fellow public sector worker I support the teachers. But unfortunately I don't think they're going to get what they're asking for, the Government seems to be largely ignoring and probably hoping that the cost of living crisis will mean people can't afford too many unpaid strike days!

MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 16:48

I'm not really interested in comparing my salary with other professionals.
But I compare it with my own salary from last year, 10 years, 20 years ago and it is less every time.

TheTrees1 · 31/01/2023 16:51

treelined76 · 30/01/2023 18:37

@TheTrees1 I didn't vote to strike and I don't like the impact it has on the kids. That's not hard to understand I don't think? So many of my colleagues were in school today so it looks like I'm not alone in feeling like this.

I'm sure you will have left your Union who voted to strike and have joined a non-striking Union then

Invisimamma · 31/01/2023 17:26

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 31/01/2023 09:59

I wouldn't say there is a lot of parental support locally for strikes. Most people recognise that teachers are already very well paid for a profession that only requires a degree and are much better off all round that many in the private sector or the health and social care sectors. Sometimes I think teachers have lost track of just how comparatively well off they are - if they manage to stay employed for 5 years (not even going for promotion) they'll automatically be paid more than most PhDs in the research sector. No-one is getting inflationary pay rises, everyone has less in real terms, and I'm sorry but I don't think teachers deserve some kind of special consideration on this. If they were striking for more classroom support, or action on disrupted learning, I'd be right behind them but they're not. As above, more money in their already very good pay packets might actually mean LESS in the pot for the things that are probably the priority.

For us personally it's a bit annoying but not so much that I'd contact an MSP about it. The kids lost SO much school over the last couple of years, when they were actually closed for long stretches and then with all the COVID isolation nonsense, that tbh a day here or there is nothing. It is a shame that the children now have the firm impression that education isn't that important (because if it was, they wouldn't have been at home every time someone sneezed), but given how much of a hit they've already taken, this won't make a dent.

👏 agree with this. Sums up local feeling here too of those I've spoken to.

treelined76 · 31/01/2023 18:34

@TheTrees1 yes, that's what I'm going to do as I can see these strikes going on and on. I actually didn't know there were non striking unions until my colleague mentioned it recently.

littleroad · 31/01/2023 19:02

I’m in a position now that almost everything in my room belongs to me. School provide jotters and basic stationery. That’s all. I am expected to have a calm down corner and do. It’s all funded by me as there’s no budget for it. We should have a stimulating library. I do and it’s all mine as we have no budget for it. No paint in school so I bought mine. Play is important for all Primary kids. I agree. Yet again I have funded it all. Do you see the pattern here? Teachers have been funding education for years. However it’s now so much worse. Education has been grossly underfunded for years. I can’t keep doing this. My own family can’t afford for me to do it anymore.

SirChenjins · 31/01/2023 19:09

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 31/01/2023 09:59

I wouldn't say there is a lot of parental support locally for strikes. Most people recognise that teachers are already very well paid for a profession that only requires a degree and are much better off all round that many in the private sector or the health and social care sectors. Sometimes I think teachers have lost track of just how comparatively well off they are - if they manage to stay employed for 5 years (not even going for promotion) they'll automatically be paid more than most PhDs in the research sector. No-one is getting inflationary pay rises, everyone has less in real terms, and I'm sorry but I don't think teachers deserve some kind of special consideration on this. If they were striking for more classroom support, or action on disrupted learning, I'd be right behind them but they're not. As above, more money in their already very good pay packets might actually mean LESS in the pot for the things that are probably the priority.

For us personally it's a bit annoying but not so much that I'd contact an MSP about it. The kids lost SO much school over the last couple of years, when they were actually closed for long stretches and then with all the COVID isolation nonsense, that tbh a day here or there is nothing. It is a shame that the children now have the firm impression that education isn't that important (because if it was, they wouldn't have been at home every time someone sneezed), but given how much of a hit they've already taken, this won't make a dent.

Agree with this - there’s not much support for the strikes round here. We’re still playing catch up from covid when the work set was woeful in the main (exceptions obviously) and now the strikes for a pay deal which they simply won’t get. £42556 after 5 years is not a bad salary - it takes years for other public sector workers to get to that point, and many never get there.

DarkForces · 31/01/2023 19:13

MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 10:23

No-one is getting inflationary pay rises, everyone has less in real terms
This isn't true.

Regarding lockdowns and covid isolations, some parents seem to be forgetting that work was set by teachers during this time and absolutely no work will be set during any periods of industrial action - which I expect will ramp up significantly in the spring given the complete lack of movement from the government.

During covid the school chucked some twinkl sheets at us and left us to it. That's not teaching and I'm sure that teachers do a lot more than that during a day. Children missed out terribly, but it has meant I take attendance a lot less seriously

MistressIggi · 31/01/2023 19:16

That's shocking @littleroad and I bet no one currently criticising teachers on this thread will even respond to your post.

SirChenjins · 31/01/2023 19:39

littleroad · 31/01/2023 19:02

I’m in a position now that almost everything in my room belongs to me. School provide jotters and basic stationery. That’s all. I am expected to have a calm down corner and do. It’s all funded by me as there’s no budget for it. We should have a stimulating library. I do and it’s all mine as we have no budget for it. No paint in school so I bought mine. Play is important for all Primary kids. I agree. Yet again I have funded it all. Do you see the pattern here? Teachers have been funding education for years. However it’s now so much worse. Education has been grossly underfunded for years. I can’t keep doing this. My own family can’t afford for me to do it anymore.

No, I’m afraid I don’t see a pattern here - because that’s not true for schools across Scotland. I have friends who are state school teachers - none of them are buying the types of things you describe. It has been underfunded for years and I agree with you on that, but striking for above-inflation pay rises (that won’t materialise) isn’t going to change that - if anything it will make it worse.

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 19:59

littleroad · 31/01/2023 19:02

I’m in a position now that almost everything in my room belongs to me. School provide jotters and basic stationery. That’s all. I am expected to have a calm down corner and do. It’s all funded by me as there’s no budget for it. We should have a stimulating library. I do and it’s all mine as we have no budget for it. No paint in school so I bought mine. Play is important for all Primary kids. I agree. Yet again I have funded it all. Do you see the pattern here? Teachers have been funding education for years. However it’s now so much worse. Education has been grossly underfunded for years. I can’t keep doing this. My own family can’t afford for me to do it anymore.

But striking is likely to make that situation worse as money to increase teachers pay will still come from education budgets.

Michellexxx · 31/01/2023 20:03

So what is acceptable for teachers then?

Do you want your child to be taught by a respected professional who is engaged and has time to create interesting resources and mark with quality feedback?
Do you want to feel valued in your job?
When you have an appraisal, you explain all of the reasons why you deserve a pay rise. We have similar each year but no compensation for it.

We have the new guidelines around GRC and working around this. We have extreme levels of mental health and have to provide work online and in the classroom for this. We have school refusers who need work catered directly for them. We have classes of 30 where a third have additional support needs but no classroom assistant available but we have to support everyone. We have parents, who don’t care at all about the day to day of what education has become but do want work online and at home and tracking and monitoring reports, and full written reports, and phone calls and parents evenings and a say in how we do our job.

we used to have health and well-being staff days. Those are long gone. Instead, we have 27 period weeks, class sizes of 30-35 and an expectation to incorporate character education into our subject specialties, as well as the nationalist agenda in curriculums whilst tracking abysmal literacy and numeracy rates, all whilst dealing with the above. And usually dealing with long term absence of colleagues meaning we have to cover their classes too. When I signed up to teaching, this was not all in our remit.

We cannot strike on those grounds because these are government policies that have been implemented and are eroding education. But the workload has increased significantly, as has expectation. As proven by the ‘critiquer’s’ posts.

This is our chance at demanding something to make us feel valued for being told we just have to keep doing all of the extras, every year.

Bear in mind, on top of this, we put on school trips, school shows, school clubs, organise competitive matches which actually don’t fall under teachers remits at all.

Shelefttheweb · 31/01/2023 20:08

£42556 after 5 years is not a bad salary

I honestly hadn’t realised teachers were so well pay. They have just lost my sympathy. That is an excellent salary for someone five years qualified with just a degree. My dc is looking to go into the health sector. Five years qualified (degree too) will take him to £32,934. To reach the same pay as a five year qualified teacher he would have to be promoted twice and be in his (twice promoted) job more than two years. A five-year teachers pay is more than that of an experienced paramedic making life or death decisions every day!

SirChenjins · 31/01/2023 20:10

When I have an appraisal I don’t put down anything about a pay rise - that’s no how appraisals work in the NHS or other public sector organisations.

What you are describing is the case for public sector and private sector organisations across Scotland - pressure of work, cost of living soaring, cutbacks…none of this is specific to teaching. The pay rises we’ve had in the NHS don’t even bring equally qualified NMAHP staff into line with existing teaching salaries - so strikes for over-inflation pay deals isn’t really getting much sympathy in my NHS place of work.

And yes, you put on school shows etc (although the teachers at my son’s school do next to none of them) but it’s not compulsory. Again, some of my teacher friends refuse to have anything to do with these things while others enjoy them and are happy to do them.