Non-deprived Scottish students barred from uni places

[Sorefootouch]

The only Scottish students taken by Edinburgh university last year to study law came from deprived neighbourhoods, regardless of grades. Is this a good thing? If my child wants to go to University of Edinburgh and study law do we have to move to a deprived neighbourhood before applying? Is this fair? My child goes to an average Scottish state school and is predicted to get all A’s at higher.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/students-from-less-deprived-background-have-door-closed-to-university-due-to-snp-funding-approach-3983059

Anecdotally from friends with older DCs at private schools, it does seem to be possible to get into Glasgow and Strathclyde. Another friends DS is studying Accounting at Aberdeen.

It seems to be Edinburgh and St Andrews that are almost impossible to get into, if you don't fall into the deprived scoring bracket.

I was heavily involved in a the graduate scheme at an investment back hence I know wit utter certainty that students from private schools gain university places.

Our best candidates were from a non prestigious university and one I hadn't considered myself. It doesn't always mean there something else at play.

*with

We are talking specifically about recent history. These cases of students being denied admission relate to last summer. Yes when I went to uni law was pretty much entirely private students. Terrible. But it would seem the pendulum has swing too far the other way.

I'm quite shocked about the number posters defending this policy. It is exactly the kind of unintended consequence that SNP headline grappling policies result in.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the bottle recycling/deposit policy, exactly similar case. My friend's husband has had to fold his small brewing business because of that.

I'm writing this as someone originally coming from Finland, where the kind of policies SNP tries to implement in a haphazard and disasterous way are actually properly implemented. Like free university tuition for all, broadly speaking equal schools and a really well working bottle deposit scheme.

Here SNP (and Greens) seem to be very keen to make "we're so progressive and Scandinavian" headlines and implement policies really badly with lots of unfortunate unintended consequences.

How many years ago was this ?

You seem determined to prove that this is factually incorrect. It may be true that going to a less well known university might be a good idea for many, but it doesn't make the current policy any less true.

I'm talking about very recently too though. It won't have changed much since then.

@apples24 I'm beginning to wonder if the university admissions outcome is in fact an unintended consequence or a more deliberate one from some of the responses here.

I don't expect many to have much sympathy for those of us doing well enough to live in a good area and afford private school ( courtesy of GP in our case) but there does seem to be some malicious glee on some people's parts that our DCs are highly unlikely to get into Scottish universities no matter how hard they work or what grades they get.

The response in Parliament to questions about this shows the issue - they simply don’t engage with criticism. And the fact SNP MSPs vote en masse for any policy means laws aren’t held to scrutiny. You can’t make good law without listening carefully to critics.

I agree. And I don’t think it is a coincidence that the main beneficiary areas are strong SNP areas.

You're missing the point.

The point is that it's the individual who is the best that is chosen - the requirements aren't any less for those from lower SIMDs.

I am a parent too. We aren't in a low SIMD and I fully expect my offspring to attend university if they wish.

I think Aberdeen is still ok because there aren’t many SCDI 1 & 2 places in the NE and N. Priority areas are heavily based in the central belt and people are reluctant to move to Aberdeen.

Are the days of conditional offers in S5 gone then? Where you apply via UCAS,, the uni assess your application and says if you get AAAB (or whatever it is for that course and your own context) you've got your place in Sept. Does that not happen now? They just say 'sorry wrong postcode' ?

I graduated from Edinburgh within last 15 years and widening access was a thing. Contextualised offers were certainly made. I was given conditional offer for every course I applied to at multiple unis (I think you could choose 6) and then I picked the offer I liked best and hoped I got the grades.

The point is that it's the individual who is the best that is chosen - the requirements aren't any less for those from lower SIMDs.

You miss the point entirely - requirements are lower and they get priority consideration so if all the spaces are offered from this group then no other spaces are offered to other groups. In addition any in the flag plus group who have the lower offer are guaranteed a place. No interview or weighing up personal statements, it you have the (lower) grades you have a space,

Unconditional offers may be offered for lower tariff courses.

Glasgow Uni gave out conditional offers for some courses last year - their standard offer for some courses was 6As at higher so if you are at a state school that only does 5 in S5 they asked you to get another one in S6.

If you aren’t in SIMD 1 or 2 or have any other flag, then no matter what your child does they have no chance on certain courses. Their grades are irrelevant. Their personal achievements are irrelevant. There is nothing they can do about it.

Good luck explaining to them how this is fair.

Plus flag applications, in the majority of cases, will be guaranteed an offer at the minimum entry requirement. If a degree has an interview, test or portfolio requirement you will be guaranteed progression to that stage of the admissions process.

You need to read the widening access more carefully. Ds asked these questions to admissions staff directly.

This means if you are going to be given an offer, after your application had been reviewed, you are guaranteed the offer will be at the minimum entry requirement. Not everyone with widening access is "guaranteed an offer".

Also you are guaranteed to get an interview, not you progress past it.

It’s the rent freeze that makes me laugh most. Yay! Rent freeze the SNP / Greens say, not looking to see what has happened in areas where this has been trialled. Landlords exit the market in their droves, hundreds applying for every flat that comes on the rental market. Rent prices for those flats newly on the market are sky high. Just so thick!

In practice, most courses at Edinburgh Uni do not have interviews so plus flag applicants who meet the minimum conditions will be offered places. Courses which require interviews include vet med, medicine and nursing, none of which were listed as being ones restricted to candidates from the lowest decile areas.

Sorry I had been reading a different university which did guarantee offers (not just uplifting scoring) for care experienced

I have lived in two Scandinavian countries. Nice places to live. The base rate of tax is 10% more than Scotland. Everyone pays much higher tax. This is not surprising as for truly good public services, everyone needs to pay. People don’t mind paying though as for a lot of people housing costs are minimal. GP and A&E visits cost money. You pay at the door. You have to pay the full cost of prescription drugs too, up to an annual limit.

I like the Scandinavian system, but the SNP seems to think they can have Scandinavian policies on Scottish tax base, and the numbers don’t add up.

Though Edinburgh do say:

”In the majority of cases, a "Plus Flag" applicant will be guaranteed an offer at the minimum entry requirement. "Plus Flag" applicants need to be predicted to meet - or have already met -those grades, and have any required subject.”

www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/access-edinburgh/widening-access-offers/our-widening-access-offer-criteria-explained

I do wonder if some parents will game the system next year by using a friend or relative's address to apply from, or by renting a property in an area of deprivation.

It is the same wording I posted and ds clarified. They are guaranteed "an offer at the min entry requirements" but only IF they are given an offer. It is the min entry requirements that are guaranteed, not the offer itself.