Non-deprived Scottish students barred from uni places

[Sorefootouch]

The only Scottish students taken by Edinburgh university last year to study law came from deprived neighbourhoods, regardless of grades. Is this a good thing? If my child wants to go to University of Edinburgh and study law do we have to move to a deprived neighbourhood before applying? Is this fair? My child goes to an average Scottish state school and is predicted to get all A’s at higher.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/students-from-less-deprived-background-have-door-closed-to-university-due-to-snp-funding-approach-3983059

Why did the 168 students from Plus flag communities choose to go to Edinburgh? Was Napier not elitist enough for them?

Yes I have actually, I have a law degree from a Scottish University.
I know 3 outstanding lawyers who have excelled in their careers with an LLB from Napier.
No one cares where you studied your LLB in Scotland, they care about your grades and your diploma.

They applied for the course and got in, that's all you need to know.
The legal profession in Scotland is stamping down hard on barriers to inequality and traditional routes to uni.

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/law

Napier, ranked 99 out of 106 for Law. If you had straight As and were excluded from Edinburgh or Glasgow you’d be far better off getting into a reputable English university and paying the tuition fees. It’s not elitism or snobbiness, it’s the quality of the teaching received. I know someone who did a one year law conversion course and was extremely disappointed by the standard of teaching on offer.

I wonder what will happen to the already high drop out rates?

I remember a couple of years ago a friend whose kids went to one of the top schools in Scotland said they had stats that showed they had the highest drop out rate in Scotland and she saw this a lot in her social circle. Are there stats available showing candidates from deprived areas have high drop out rates?

I'm assuming Napier is not a 'RG' uni so beloved of the aspirational middle-classes across MN, hence the frothing? 😂

This thread is precisely why young people from less 'middle class/naice' areas should be prioritised for Scottish unis, assuming they are bright enough - which they undoubtedly are.

Without having 'middle class' parents living in 'naice' areas, those students would lack the parental financial support to move to England the privileged spawn of 'middle class/naice' parents enjoy.

Whilst I'm not knowledgeable enough about the criteria on widening access etc on the face of it I would think contextual offers are welcome.

What sticks in my craw is that an student from England with worse results gets a place over a home student because they pay £9k. (Via loan obviously)

Out of interest can home students opt to pay the 9k to attend a Scottish uni and get a 'UK' place? If they have to go to England to get on a course the want anyway, it would be cheaper to just pay the tuition and have them live at home and go to a local uni.

No they can’t @Forth That’s a big part of the issue. I don’t think anyone argues against funding the less privileged kids, just that it is exceptionally unfair that RUK kids with worse results will get in in preference to other Scottish kids with better results. Scottish kids are excluded from many Scottish unis.

Use the free places to fund the kids that need it by all means, but let the rest pay and have parity with RUK kids.

No Scottish students cannot opt to pay the tuition fees. I think that would be an excellent compromise position. I don’t mind paying, if it allows the university ti keep the funded places open for those that cannot afford it, but it is not an option.

Omg that’s shocking!! What do the students do then? Can they apply to unis in England and wales?
thanks for making me aware OP. I never knew

This is nonsense.

What are you basing this on?

Have you read this thread at all? An average Scottish student with straight As would not even get across the desk of the admissions tutor for law at Edinburgh purely due to the fact they were not paying to be there. An English student would.

Again no one cares. Your studies are what you make them. Scotland's legal community is small that everyone really does have the same opportunities to mingle and network.
There are so many opportunities to progress in spite of where you go to uni.
Law really is one of those subjects that requires a huge amount of independent learning and reading.
All modules are set by the law society and only approved unis can run it.

Anyway, the majority of law students don't get anywhere near a training contract and opt to do other careers so I guess it depends what your kids want to study.

I agree with you OP, it's unfair.

I don't disagree at all with the policy of making it easier for pupils from state schools/ deprived areas to get into university, but at least allow others to apply by paying the fees like English pupils can.

I know so many friends whose DCs didn't get into Scottish universities this year, one who has a high performing autistic DS at state school didn't even get an offer at Edinburgh university. In fact I don't know anyone whose DC got into Edinburgh and we blinking live here.

Why not go to another Scottish uni? They are all commutable distances?
Glasgow, Herriot Watt, Strathclyde are all outstanding institutions.
Edinburgh has always been this way

It is a mess.

Like everything the SNP touches it’s a mess.

stop voting for SNP if you don’t like it and in the meantime start saving up your pennies.

I would be interested in the success rate of Scottish students securing a graduate job. How many graduate jobs are there in Scotland anyway?

a 1st class honours degree from Napier is not the same as a 1st class from Edinburgh university.
I heard employers reconcile this by looking at a candidate’s higher grades.

I suppose I am one of those aspirational middle class parents. I went to Edinburgh uni and would love my high achieving son to have the same opportunity.
Unfortunately he probably won’t because he lives in a well to do area and is at a high performing state school.
I am pretty much resigned to the fact that he will have to go South and pay tuition fees and it’s not ideal as he will only be 17 when he goes.
I fully support widening participation but the current policy isn’t doing that, it is just creating new inequalities and appears to be narrowing participation.
As there will be no changes to the level of funding and the resulting cap on places, there needs to be transparency from universities and the government in terms of who they are offering places to.
It’s extremely unfair to have a system in place where pupils are effectively wasting an application on an institution or course where they stand no chance of getting a place.
Great to see this being discussed, the majority of people I talk to are completely oblivious to the system for uni places!

OP, the issue is overseas students are prioritised.

From personal experience, the course will be stuffed - STUFFED - full of rich middle class Canadians. These are not selected by postcode or hard luck story. They are rich, well educated Canadians who can get their law degree quicker and cheaper by coming to Scotland - and pushing out Scots.

I’m not sure what I think of this to be honest. In my experience some very gifted and hardworking students from deprived backgrounds have failed to do well after graduating. They struggle to compete with other graduates from more affluent homes with better connections, more confidence and more money to get them started. To improve social mobility will take more than widening access to education.

Everyone talking about kids from " naice" areas being excluded, that's not what we talking about here, we're talking about kids from everywhere but the most deprived 20% category.

I think the key issue here @Snowglobules is it isn't "widening " access to university at all. It simply means that the less affluent Scottish students will be in cohorts with affluent Canadians or students from England, whereas anyone with a posh postcode in Scotland will need to go to England.
It's almost as if the SNP hate the middle and upper class more than they hate the English- but that can't be true, surely.

The university of Edinburgh is 1/3rd Scottish students, 1/3rd rUK students and 1/3rd overseas. They HAVE to stuff with overseas students to make the books balance. They have no choice. They get £1,800 for every Scottish student, £9,250 for every English and the sky is the limit for the rest. The overseas students are subsidising the Scottish students. It’s how it works. The only way to increase the number of Scottish students is for the government to fund places properly, or let Scottish students pay their way in the same way that English students do.

DH has been reading about the unintended consequences of the upcoming bottle deposit scheme, ie. Wine producers potentially no longer supplying Scottish retailers.
If the Scottish middle classes can no longer buy nice wine or get their kids into top unis and are paying more tax for the privilege I'm not sure what will happen...

Most kids with aspirational middle class parents do really well - they don’t need to go to particular schools or unis. The parents will bulldozer their paths and ensure they are absolutely fine. They will get work experience and the right work ethic thrown into the cradle for good measure. Anyone outraged by this is already one step ahead of the game worrying about their DC who are going to be absolutely fine. The SNP know this. If you don’t like, go to another country and start all over again. There will be a happy Hong Kong middle class family waiting on the side happy to take your place. It is what happens in the cycle of ambitious people. The unis themselves and admissions tutors are paying lip service until it comes to their own DC. Then it changes again. There is no point getting outraged or worked up about it. The law firms hiring the students know full well what is going on. They adapt pretty quickly.