Non-deprived Scottish students barred from uni places

[Sorefootouch]

The only Scottish students taken by Edinburgh university last year to study law came from deprived neighbourhoods, regardless of grades. Is this a good thing? If my child wants to go to University of Edinburgh and study law do we have to move to a deprived neighbourhood before applying? Is this fair? My child goes to an average Scottish state school and is predicted to get all A’s at higher.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/students-from-less-deprived-background-have-door-closed-to-university-due-to-snp-funding-approach-3983059

It does seem unfair to me that we pay higher taxes in Scotland which fund Uni education which our children are unable to access certain courses regardless of how well they do in their Highers

I got into Uni from a deprived background
Would have hated to have got in bas d on that rather than on merit

Can you add your evidence?

I know lots of people who have attended Edinburgh and aren't from the lower SIMDs. I also don't know anyone who wasn't able to attend university in Scotland and had to go to another country for study.

the evidence relates to places allocated last summer at Edinburgh university, and stem from a parent making a freedom of information request when their child failed to be accepted despite excellent grades.

of the 170 Scot’s accepted on law last year, 168 came from SIMD 1 postcodes. Some courses (Japanese, psychology, philosophy, business) had only Scot’s with widening access criteria. No average Scottish students were accepted whatsoever.

yes I’m sure average kids could get accepted to do something at some university for free in Scotland if they are a straight A student, but that’s not how university education works. And if the SNP boasts that university tuition is free, it goes without saying that these places should be free AND accessible to all who are able enough to meet the criteria.

Absolutely

I would like to see the evidence from the FOI. Can you send a link?

Would be useful for Edinburgh Uni to comment also. Their website details a much wider contextual flagging. Perhaps last year was a one off as a result of grade inflation. Criteria for contextual offers are never perfect. In the past Edinburgh were good as they actually read the personal statement/references and took extenuating circumstances into account.

This doesn't mean much to be honest.

Where's the evidence that application s were disregarded solely due to their postcode?

Obviously, if this is true, it is far less time consuming (and therefore cheaper) for the admissions department at Edinburgh to just go on a postcode than look into the whole circumstances of a student.

From a political perspective, here we have it. Hard working driven parents tend to be happy to contribute to the system more than they get back and even support a left leaning tendency until it affects their own DC. Then all hell breaks loose. Then nobody wants to contribute to those more deprived in society, because the consciousness to the poor etc isn’t as great as towards their own DC. About time politicians understand this fundamental issue. And stop constantly worrying just about the grey vote.

Where they Edinburgh postcodes? I live in an SIMD 10 area in Edinburgh but apparently all the kids at my DCs school quality for the widening access grades for unis in the LA via LEAPs.

Just checked the LEAPs website and DCs school is a group 1+ school on the grounds of a low level of kids going on to higher education which seems to be why additional criteria isn’t taken into account. The area we live in used to go out of catchment in the main until recently and I suspect the much larger number of children from this SIMD 10 area now going to the school might result in a higher % of pupils going into HE education anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised if the school changes LEAPs banding at some point which would be largely for structural reasons but hopefully that doesn’t impact on the access available to kids in the more deprived areas of the catchment.

Micheal Marra is the MSP who has the freedom of information request results so I have emailed him and asked for the full data. I just want to keep my childrens aspirations realistic. If all As students aren’t going to be considered they deserve to know before applying.

and of course people are going to be cross if they pay higher taxes for better benefits, and then are not able to access these benefits. If the social care was only available to those in deprived postcodes, all hell would break loose. You cannot take the political capital for providing these services, without actually providing the services.

My job means I have a lot of knowledge about university funding. If the Scottish government is unwilling to fund more places, they have to let Scottish students pay tuition fees similar to England, to be assessed for access on a similar basis as English students. It is unfair for Scot’s to be prevented from accessing a Scottish university education, where an equally able paying English student is able to access that place. Use all of the money saved on ‘free’ places to support deprived students.

Yeah , I'm going to stop here as what you're saying is incorrect. Also, you realise that the percentage of Scottish students at Scottish universities is the same as English students at English universities?

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/eligibility-for-home-fee-status-and-student-support-in-scotland/

You forgot the rest of the UK. It isn’t just England.

Is that in regards to me? The stats are essentially the same ( from memory ) across the board.

This is not true. Check out the HESA website which provides all of the statistics. In 2020-21, 65% of students at Scottish universities are Scottish, compared with 75% of students in English universities being English.

My DS has just applied to Edinburgh uni (among others) - not for one of the subjects listed earlier - although this development is still very concerning for me.

He goes to a top twenty state school in a predominantly middle class area, ie. a similar demographic to the kids who were all rejected.

He has top grades: 6 highers at grade A and an advanced higher at grade A (taken S4-5). Predicted all As in four advanced highers in sixth year.

He has no offers yet although his application went in in October. Luckily he applied to two English unis as well. I will update if there is any movement from Edinburgh. 🤞

This policy excludes anyone who is deprived or living in poverty anywhere other than SCDI 1 or 2 areas - which is the majority of those living in poverty as they are in more mixed communities. It also excludes everyone living rurally or on the islands. Lawyers being selected like this won’t reflect the whole community. And those who benefit and are successful will find their children excluded.

How can it be fair that a deprived candidate from a mixed rural community with a SCDI 3 score who works hard are their mediocre state school to achieve top grades will not even be able to enter the competition for a place, whereas a student from a prestigious private school in England can get in with lower grades than theirs?

I wonder what will happen to the already high drop out rates?

I don’t actually know anyone with the required grades who hasn’t got into the uni they wanted to this year or last year from my DCs school or others that I know. I don’t know anyone applying for law though. Any anecdotes to add to this thread?

He has top grades: 6 highers at grade A and an advanced higher at grade A (taken S4-5). Predicted all As in four advanced highers in sixth year.

whilst these are amazing results, I do think Unis should only offer on the normal number of subjects studied - five Highers and 3 AH - as most schools do not enable students to take this number of subjects or do so at that stage. Obviously for your son this would be 5As along with a large number of others so wouldn’t distinguish him. Therefore the grade range itself should be spread out more meaning fewer get five straight As at higher and your son could shine by doing so rather than having more - an option not open to most.

The SNP taints everything it touches.

Is 3 AH normal? Most kids I know got unconditional offers based their higher results and when I’ve looked at the prospectus for Scottish universities I have only seen offers based on higher grades.

Nicola was ‘gobsmacked’ that the Labour MSP thought the exclusion of non-deprived students was a bad thing. She is just so hard of thinking.

@Sorefootouch why does your nephew have to go Edinburgh uni? What's wrong with Napier? They run the LLB too? Or is it not elitist enough

Sorry, yes you are right.

Napier is meant to be a piss poor place to study law. Have you checked out how the course ranks compared to other universities?