Would brits in EU get a vote in indy ref 2?

[newstart1234]

I can't remember if the SNP supported brits in the EU/EU nationals in UK getting a vote in the Brexit ref and, as they seem to be seriously planning indy ref 2 now, does anyone know if they will be pushing for brits in the EU getting a vote? Will the right to vote be only based on residency in Scotland? And if so, will EU/non-EU citizens get a vote?

I actually agree with @chergar with the once in a lifetime thing.

We did however choose in 2014. The people of Scotland voted No. I do actually hope we see another Indy vote at some point but the country needs to recover from covid before we attempt it.

It will be interesting to see how this play out given that refugees where allowed to vote in the locals. I'm not sure how it would play out with people who no longer live here as there is some pretty strong support from the celebs etc

I'm seeing lots of noise about her starting the gun on Indyref2, but has she though? As far as I can tell, a section 30 request hasn't actually been submitted, just an open offer to talk about it with Boris Johnson (who has already said no) and the usual noise about how Scotland's being held back by the big bad UK. It's certainly true that she's using a lot of our money to make said noise, even though we apparently can't balance the books and are facing public sector cuts, and two thirds of Scots think it's the wrong time anyway (apparently some manifesto pledges are more important than others), but actually we're no closer to an Indyref than we were yesterday.

When she does eventually get round to doing the paperwork (and nothing will happen until then), it will be passed to the courts, and it doesn't need to be Westminster challenging either if they think optics are bad. Most likely it will be a cross-party group of Unionists who challenge the legality. It's quite likely that they will rule that the SG doesn't have the competence, and I suspect Sturgeon knows this, and this is why she's so reluctant to even 'test the question'. So overall I'm pretty relaxed and seriously doubt there will be an Indyref next year. They might start campaigning anyway I suppose (although that's fairly pointless), but, judging by the unsure public opinions on the radio yesterday, I also suspect that once people are forced to really think through all the implications only the hard core support will remain. The closest thing we have as an example of how this might go is the shit show that is Brexit, and I don't think there's a huge appetite for plunging ourselves into Northern Ireland style constitutional arguments or making ourselves poorer during a cost of living crisis.

I think this is largely to placate the faithful who are getting very restless and must be shitting themselves that Boris will be out soon. If we get a labour government in a couple of years the cause is well and truly stuffed, as the SNP have singularly failed to demonstrate thus far that life is better with devolution (and full control already over the vast majority of our lives) and rely largely on breaking away from the 'Toaries'.

She's already spent £20 million on her independence propaganda.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-defends-20m-indyref2-27123109

Giving the people of Scotland the right to choose does not take away anyone else's Democratic right, denying them the opportunity to cast their vote does

And we just keep voting until it's Yes and then vote no more?

All off Scotlands infrastructure including the NHS and education has gone tits up but they want to spend so much time and money on this shit of an indyref2 🤦‍♀️

Giving the people of Scotland the right to choose does not take away anyone else's Democratic right, denying them the opportunity to cast their vote does

Remind me how many democratic elections at national and local level we've had since the indy vote - and what the percentages in favour of separatist v unionist parties are? Because as far as I can recall, there's nothing to suggest that the democratic will of the people which has been exercised time and time and time again here has shown anything that contradicts the 2014 indy result.

@saltnvinegarlover we can't afford to give public sector workers decent pay increases and they want to cut thousands of jobs - but money can be found for another indy ref? Do one SNP - get your house in order first.

Have you read the White Paper?

For the avoidance of doubt - “The debate we are engaged in as a nation is about the future of all of us lucky enough to live in this diverse and vibrant country. It is a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland - a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way.”

A once in a generation opportunity, note - not a once we've done it once we can do similar or the same thing again whenever we feel like it opportunity (despite what the National might tell you).

They might start campaigning anyway I suppose (although that's fairly pointless)

They have never STOPPED campaigning with their nauseating marches, and wee "are you yes yet" stickers and the rest of it.

Yes their rebranding and separation goes further than that, everytime I turn round another agency has changed its name . Scottish flag added, Scottish Govt funded etc. I would love to know how much they have spent on that.

I'd love for the question to be changed or reversed so they'd have to peel off all the Yes stickers.

Basically it was keep being 'a once in a lifetime vote' until we give in and vote yes 😩

They’ll let my dog vote if they thought he’d be in favour

J*udgeRindersMinder
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🤣

In an interview with the BBC’s Daily Politics, [Nicola sturgeon] said: “The SNP have always said that in our view these kind of referendums are ‘once in a generation’ events.”

Members of the armed forces abroad were not allowed to vote. Scottish expats wee not allowed to vote, yet both these groups of people will be affected. Wonder why they weren't allowed to vote? 🤔 seems a bit unfair to me. The SNP like to gerrymander to get the result they want basically.

Likely residents only which makes sense. I’m surprised people can’t see why another independence referendum is needed, given that the Westminster government has since ensured all the UK nations have to do a hard Brexit, and have proceeded to run the economy and the country into the ground like a dart. They presided over one of the worst pandemic responses in the developed world too. Scotland is better off ruling over itself, I’m genuinely shocked people think they would do a worse job than having England dictate their government for the next 50 years.

You really can't see why another Brexit would be a bad thing for Scotland? I'm genuinely shocked in return (I'm not - the old 'taking back control' is a very tired argument used by separatists - and look at the mess that's caused since we left the EU. Great idea to come out of the EU and the UK, not).

What?! With the way the SNP have run Scotland into the ground?! Let them have more power? No thanks.

Scexit will be way more of an economic shock than Brexit. We are so much more intertwined with the UK than the EU that it will take decades and billions spent when that money could be spent on other more important things.

Public support for independence just hasn't changed substantially in the polls since Brexit.

I'm baffled that anyone thinks it's necessary or a good idea.

Ruled by "England" 🙄behave.

What about the millions of Scots ruled by the SNP that don't want to be, where is our representation?

You do know how democracy works eh?

More cut and paste from the SNP manual.

It's not that they would do a worse job, they are doing a worse job. SNP have had control of most of what affects our daily lives for many years and they are doing worse on every single one of those areas and sowing division and resentment and pissing money up the wall at the same time.

I can see why people would be pissed off with Brexit - to say it hasn't gone well is an understatement - but to me that's exactly why Scexit is a terrible idea. If this is the chaos we endure from leaving a trading block as a country that already had it's own central bank and mature political system, just imagine the state we'll be in if the leave the UK as well (and we'd be on our own for a good few years, decades probably, before we could join the EU, under whatever terms they stipulate). One of Sturgeon's own advisors estimated Brexit x10. That UK economy that is apparently being run into the dirt is still the 5th largest in the world and I don't want to know how badly the pandemic would have hit us without having the UK umbrella to pay for the vaccinations, furlough and extensive free testing (which was pretty unique btw, most countries always made you pay).

Also, it is simply not true to claim that the UK's pandemic response was one of the worst in the developed world either. A study published in the Lancet a few months ago looking at excess deaths worldwide up the end of 2021 shows our excess deaths to be distinctly average, and indeed lower than the Western European average. The UK did markedly better than several equivalent countries including Spain, Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands and Italy. They also break down the figures for the UK, and show that at that point in time excess deaths in England were lower than the other three UK nations - data since then have shown Scotland to have the highest excess deaths in the UK for several months now. That's not to say that mistakes weren't made, the decision to seed care homes with COVID positive patients taken by SG and Westminster was criminally negligent in my opinion, but let's keep a sense of perspective and stop exaggerating - the grass wasn't greener elsewhere.

A vote for independence is not necessarily a vote for the SNP. It's not about how you feel about Nicola Sturgeon or any other politician.

England votes in Tory governments and it's not going to stop any time soon, in my opinion the situation in Westminster is getting more and more depressing and corrupt. I truly believe this Tory government do not care about Scotland at all.

Imagine if Scotland became independent and we could completely start again. Be an outward looking, forward thinking, welcoming, progressive country.

A new political system with new political parties - SNP no longer dominate.

New education system based on the Scandinavian model, play and outdoor based learning until the age of 7. Less emphasis put on grades and exams.

Get rid of any weapons and armed forces and use all those resources/skilled people for something that helps people rather than kills them (hospital ships/planes that help war torn countries).

Rejoining the EU and enjoying free movement, welcoming back essential immigrant workers and treating them with the respect they deserve (and yes there is no guarantee we'd get back in - but it's a lot more likely that the UK ever rejoining which is our only option if we say no to independence).

A healthcare system that is well funded and cherished (right wing governments like the ones that England keeps voting in DO NOT care about the NHS).

Stop mining oil in the North Sea and become self sufficient with wind power. We have lots of wind and lots of water, something that will become more scarce in England as temperatures rise.

I want to feel hopeful about a new and better country. England has chosen it's path and I don't want to be dragged down it.

I’d love what you are advocating @theskywasallviolet And I don’t want to bring reality into your dream, but Scotland would start in an utterly dire situation. A real crisis. Indy Scotland would start with a massive debt to creditors who have just upped your interest rate as you have zero credit rating, and you have just handed back the Barnett formula. There is not a snowflakes chance in hell you’d be expanding the NHS budget. You’d do well to be able to maintain current welfare and pensions levels. Things like cutting public sector salaries are the only ways you can survive handing back £12bn to the UK every year. Get real! This is serious!

No one knows for sure exactly what would happen, but I'd rather take a chance on something new than stay with what we've got, because it's so, so broken.

I know it won't be easy but, for me, it's worth it to have the chance at a better country in the long run. Staying tied to England gets worse every year and I don't see it getting better.

You say you'd love what I'm advocating and the only way we have (even a snowflake's chance in hell!) at that is independence, it's not going to happen while we're part of the UK.

And how many years are we to put up with financial dire straits following independence? 10? 25? 50? A ballpark figure would be sufficient.

We’re not talking about a bit of a tough few months while the SNP govt (who are going nowhere - don’t kid yourself) begin to deliver this utopia. The fallout from this would put Brexit in the shade, and until the SNP start to come up with answers to the difficult questions then all the posturing continues to be nothing more than another Brexit red bus.