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Original poster

Are women in Scotland aware of how bad things have got?

457 replies

Leafstamp · 03/02/2022 19:15

I hang out on the Feminism board a lot, and I know not all MNetters care for that section. Which is fine. But I am continually appalled at how bad things are for women in Scotland - compared to England.

For example, this, from Feminism thread:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/01/the-thought-police-are-here/

To briefly summarise:

  • Mridul was born male
  • Mridul is legally male with no GRC
  • Mridul is the CEO of Edinburgh Rape crisis
  • Mridul claims women who want female only rape crisis services are bigoted and should 'reframe their trauma'
  • The CEO of a domestic violence charity Nicola Murray stopped referring women to Mridul's rape crisis service due to Mridul's misogyny
  • Mridul reported Nicola Murray to the police for committing a hate crime
  • The police actually visited Nicola Murray to question her thinking

Please can any not-particularly-feminist women share how you feel about this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Rheopecticfluid · 05/02/2022 16:32

She disappeared when she was told the reality of what is happening in Scottish schools and also was unable to explain exactly how we actually have it so much worse in Scotland.

Bollocks. The op hasn't disappeared at all.
Maybe you should reread it. Although people do generally have other things they need to do in their lives as well. Rather than sitting over the thread the whole time until its reached its conclusion. 🙄🤨

Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2022 16:33

@Eggsplanation and in actual fact, self id was dropped by the UK Government, while the Scottish Government continues to push it.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/22/uk-government-drops-gender-self-identification-plan-for-trans-people

alicesfavouritepen · 05/02/2022 16:42

@Rheopecticfluid

She disappeared when she was told the reality of what is happening in Scottish schools and also was unable to explain exactly how we actually have it so much worse in Scotland.

Bollocks. The op hasn't disappeared at all.
Maybe you should reread it. Although people do generally have other things they need to do in their lives as well. Rather than sitting over the thread the whole time until its reached its conclusion. 🙄🤨

I have read the thread. She came back when it returned to the echo chamber she wanted.
alicesfavouritepen · 05/02/2022 16:43

@Scianel

what do you think used to happen and what exactly is it you are so scared of now?

There used to be provision for single-sex spaces and for me personally, I'm scared of the current situation where going against the SG narrative and stating even quite factual things, not even anything hateful and abusive, can bring the police to your door. And that's with good reason, we've seen it happen not just in Scotland but in Wales.

I also think there are a lot more people now openly identifying as a gender other than their birth sex, and some of them are extremely militant and are pushing this agenda hard.

Transpeople using single sex spaces is really not a new thing.
Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2022 16:49

When the GRA was written in 2004, it was estimated that approximately 5000 people would apply for a GRC. The numbers are clearly massively higher than that now.

Self ID poses various obvious issues.

A fair amount of organisations who should use the single sex exemptions they are legally entitled to are not due to pressure from activists. There's a regular poster (based in England) who now cannot access her local rape crisis service because they provide a women's group (actually mixed sex), men's group and a specialised group for trans and non binary people. They refuse to provide a single sex service (despite being entitled to do so) because its 'not inclusive'.

In terms of toilets, Google Katie Dolatowski (one of many examples)

In terms of prisons, the Keep Prisons Single Sex website will give a wealth of information.

visitingagain · 05/02/2022 16:51

@Scianel I don't think this is an issue. "Single sex" spaces can still exist and trans people can continue to go in them because inherently the trans people identify as the sex in the space. Just like they did before when they were transitioning and they self identified as whatever. That's what they did, so they could then go to the doctor and get referred for surgery. This has been the process for many years. And no one saw it as a bad thing. In fact probably didn't notice or thought "poor soul" or like the INCREDIBLY and unbelievably articulate 6 year old in a pp, they thought " but why am I assuming?"
It is good that it's finally being protected in law.
So now, if some abusive men want to twist a legal right to self ID in order to do some bad things, that is a separate issue of MALE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.
Diminishing the rights of trans people is not an answer. Strengthening sanctions against abusive men would be the answer.
This thread really needs to go into the feminism boards where people who agree with removing the existing rights of a minority group in order to protect violent men, can all agree with each other.
Although the self ID part of the legislation is solely Scottish, in other respects we've been behind the rest of the UK for years.
Oh and god help Luisa Madrigal if she ever gets into a single space around some posters here.

Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2022 16:52

Transpeople using single sex spaces is really not a new thing

I've never understood how this could be considered a good argument. Women's single sex spaces have always been used by people who don't care about women's boundaries so let's open it up to all?

visitingagain · 05/02/2022 16:54

@Waitwhat23 did you even know or care if the changing rooms at top shop were being used by trans people? Did it harm you when they were in the womens toilet queue in John Lewis's or went to the Turkish Baths at Portobello pool? I can assure you they did all these things.

Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2022 16:54

If there's a male in the toilet, how do we know if they're violent or not?

Scianel · 05/02/2022 16:55

I'm afraid I don't feel remotely comforted or persuaded by anything you have written there visitingagain, I just feel lied to and gaslit. I don't like it.

Years ago there were a small number of transexuals, yes. That has very little similarity to the TRA moment now.

So now, if some abusive men want to twist a legal right to self ID in order to do some bad things, that is a separate issue of MALE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

But people are whatever gender they say they are. How dare you say these people are not female?

Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2022 16:56

Women knew. They were too polite or scared to say anything.

visitingagain · 05/02/2022 17:03

@Scianel have you ever gone into a male toilet by mistake? That can happen. Not often.
But I don't think many men bother to self id as a woman so they can go into a toilet and menace people.
Male violence occurs pretty much everywhere.

Rhannion · 05/02/2022 17:05

@Waitwhat23

Women knew. They were too polite or scared to say anything.
Yes , women did notice and were concerned. We know it’s part of some of them in their kink to use spaces meant exclusively for women. The issue is that the individuals who do this should NOT be given a green light to do so IN LAW.
visitingagain · 05/02/2022 17:08

@Waitwhat23 women being scared of trans people is very sad, because they are not the threat to our safety that posters here are concerned about. It doesn't make a difference that there are more out trans people and more militant TRA than before. It's a good thing and we should support it. Are we only supposed to like tame minorities?
There is a separate issue of (white) men abusing their power so maybe address that ?

Rhannion · 05/02/2022 17:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

visitingagain · 05/02/2022 17:10

@Rhannion that's a disgusting post, I've reported it.

Scianel · 05/02/2022 17:12

But Rhiannion hasn't said anything non-factual?

I think you've just beautifully illustrated the point. Name-calling and censorship for even talking about something factual.

Rheopecticfluid · 05/02/2022 17:13

Transpeople using single sex spaces is really not a new thing.

The numbers are a new thing. There were initially around 5000 trans people in the UK, around half of those female. This number has swelled to over half a million in the UK in recent years following the GRA. This effectively turns sex segregated space into mixed sex space. A massive safeguarding issue for women. Great for a certain type of male.

Scianel · 05/02/2022 17:13

Here is the case in question, for the avoidance of any doubt. It's in the public domain.

Rhannion · 05/02/2022 17:13

Which bit disgusts you ? The correct language of using a trans identifying man? You tell me which part alarms you.

Rheopecticfluid · 05/02/2022 17:15

[quote visitingagain]@Rhannion that's a disgusting post, I've reported it.[/quote]
Yes, quick, get factual posts swept away, quick before the women of Scotland see the truth.

visitingagain · 05/02/2022 17:20

@Rheopecticfluid @Rhannion @Scianel the language used in that post is disgusting and I am not going to repeat it. It's not factual. Being trans does not mean that you have a deviant sexual orientation as you are implying.
But says everything about the view you take of all trans people.

Waitwhat23 · 05/02/2022 17:21

[quote visitingagain]@Waitwhat23 women being scared of trans people is very sad, because they are not the threat to our safety that posters here are concerned about. It doesn't make a difference that there are more out trans people and more militant TRA than before. It's a good thing and we should support it. Are we only supposed to like tame minorities?
There is a separate issue of (white) men abusing their power so maybe address that ? [/quote]
Again, with self id, how do women know who is violent and who is not?

Some examples of militant TRA's - www.terfisaslur.com

To paraphrase JRK, TRA's threatening to rape and kill us unless they get access to single sex spaces demonstrates women's points exactly.

Rhannion · 05/02/2022 17:31

[quote visitingagain]**@Rheopecticfluid* @Rhannion* @Scianel the language used in that post is disgusting and I am not going to repeat it. It's not factual. Being trans does not mean that you have a deviant sexual orientation as you are implying.
But says everything about the view you take of all trans people.
[/quote]
I understand that a large amount of trans people just want to live their lives safely and in a normal way just like anyone else, just like women do.

visitingagain · 05/02/2022 17:31

@Waitwhat23 that's VERY complicated. There are extreme views on all sides but a lot of that is the nature of discourse on twitter- it is vile and I don't excuse it. Strip out trolls and bots, but also consider that TRAs actually feel that the gender critical movement doesn't even accept the validity of their existence- and reconsider their comments in the light of a view that if they don't even exist - how can they be a threat? That's where they are coming from, inspired by the likes of Malcolm X.

Back in real life... putting the existing informal rights of millions into law to protect them can only be a good thing. We can't regress and remove this from them- pushing them into a closet they came out from in the 60s.

If men abuse this legislation, that's a separate issue. It needs to be addressed if it happens. And it has been addressed as in the case of the guide leader