Guilt Free Railing 14

[WouldBeGood]

😱 I think we will need this thread.. could it be the last?!

@ElephantOfRisk

Of course it's a valid topic but we don't need stuff just pasted in from whatever article someone happens to be reading.

If you show me the party that doesn't have a level of corruption in it then I'll stand corrected. Of course not every individual in a party is corrupt.

Well I liked reading it and found it interesting. I'm glad that there varied voices here so I'm not quite sure why you would get to determine what 'we' need or don't need to read tbh.

No I don't need to go and provide you with that information. Surely the onus would be on the person making the sweeping accusations to provide the evidence no?

Even the media is now unable to hide its utter disgust at the constant Tory carry on. It's genuinely shocking. To suggest that all the parties is the same is just bizarre.

It is bizarre. And wrong.

Yes, it seems that even the new editor of The Daily Mail can't align his morals with the corruption by the UK Government.

Eh? I don't need to provide evidence, you are the one that seems to think there are parties out their that aren't corrupt. I don't need evidence or provide you with any - how bizarre!

I certainly agree that they shouldn't have 2nd jobs or work as directors or own their own businesses without evidencing that someone else runs them in their entirety, especially when they can't do the one they are paid for properly.

Who is they? Do you have a particular person in mind or just all of them? These are massive generalisations surely?

Who are they? They are whoever you were talking about that have 2nd jobs?

Anyway, penny has dropped so I'm out. Have a nice evening.

@ElephantOfRisk

Eh? I don't need to provide evidence, you are the one that seems to think there are parties out their that aren't corrupt. I don't need evidence or provide you with any - how bizarre!

I certainly agree that they shouldn't have 2nd jobs or work as directors or own their own businesses without evidencing that someone else runs them in their entirety, especially when they can't do the one they are paid for properly.

Who is they? Do you have a particular person in mind or just all of them? These are massive generalisations surely?

Who are they? They are whoever you were talking about that have 2nd jobs?

Okay lol I don't mean to be rude @ElephantOfRisk but I've to provide evidence that political parties aren't corrupt but you don't need to provide evidence that they are? Is that honestly what you're saying?

In terms of the media position, imo this is the cyclical position that happens when any party has been in power for too long. I remember it happening from when Major was PM.

God forbid we take the DM as our moral compass. We'd all be absolutely fucked if that were the case.

Although I'm in Grateful in some respects as it generally means that the tide is turning 🤞

@titsintiers interesting and I wouldn't be at all surprised. Did they turn on Major or did they unearth corruption? I don't remember this and, as much as I'm not a fan of any Tory, wouldn't have thought John major was the corrupt type.

Yes, I absolutely despise the racist DM.

Hence my shock that this government is too morally inept even for them.

I remember them reporting on sleaze regularly ( I was at school in the late 90's so don't remember all the details but there was a DM article a week ago if you Google)

I think every party has MSPs or MPs who have second jobs be it a Dr (a Tory MSP), a consultant (Inc head of lib debs), a author (multiple parties), lawyers (tory and Labour), bankers or charity commissions work.
There is a difference between having a second job and breaking ministerial code however so paid lobbying which the Tory did.

It's easy to fall into the latest media circus that all second jobs are bad and automatically mean corruption..... They aren't! The head of the lib dems for instance uses his to pay for his disabled sons care...... But its easy to get swept up in the latest political circus without actually digging deeper into what that means on different levels.

It's the level of corruption I can't bear though. Literally millions upon millions of pounds of our money passed to friends and backhanders. One rule for them and another for us. I could well believe in the cyclical nature of media favour but that doesn't make the corruption less true.

@Scottishskifun

I think every party has MSPs or MPs who have second jobs be it a Dr (a Tory MSP), a consultant (Inc head of lib debs), a author (multiple parties), lawyers (tory and Labour), bankers or charity commissions work. There is a difference between having a second job and breaking ministerial code however so paid lobbying which the Tory did.

It's easy to fall into the latest media circus that all second jobs are bad and automatically mean corruption..... They aren't! The head of the lib dems for instance uses his to pay for his disabled sons care...... But its easy to get swept up in the latest political circus without actually digging deeper into what that means on different levels.

That's a fair point.

Agreed. I don't have an issue with second jobs if they don't interfere with representing their constituency.

It's the corruption - the ultra wealthy in Government making other ultra wealthy individuals richer and vice versa. Whilst simultaneously , removing money from the poorer in our society. So mothers have to choose to heat their homes or feed their family. That's really hard to take.
Brexit - the negative effects of Brexit will be double that of the pandemic. The PM lied to the public yet there's no consequence for him.

@alicesfavouritepen

It's the level of corruption I can't bear though. Literally millions upon millions of pounds of our money passed to friends and backhanders. One rule for them and another for us. I could well believe in the cyclical nature of media favour but that doesn't make the corruption less true.

But by that rule then the same thing should apply to the SNP surely? Millions upon millions moved away from the Scottish NHS, wasted tax payer money on an app for vaccine passports (that is still shit), 500k of our money in a unwinnable legal case, another 500k on another case they knew would cause issues before. All this is tax payer money....

Same can be said for when Labour was in power for the UK with defence deals which were very questionable.

Hence none of them come out smelling of roses they all have dodgy dealing aspects and all get caught out eventually with it.

It's fine to hate tories I'm not particularly a fan myself but I see where somethings they have got right, just as I see where the SNP have got things right (it's been a few years for that one unfortunately), like I really agree with some Labour MPs and MSPs but not all Labour policies.

Getting sucked into the media circus is pointless, they are there to sell papers and advertising space. There are probably thousands of civil servants who would love to put the record straight on the majority of rubbish they come out with about the depts for instance under "govt failings" but they aren't allowed so media spins it how they wish and even the statement response is not enough. Same goes for scottish civil servants or Welsh.
I take most reports with a pinch of salt, until there has been a hearing which proves it its just another good story line for a newspaper!

I've been told the powers that be are looking at vaccinating 5-11 year olds next. I knew it would come. I don't particularly want my 5yo vaccinated. I don't think he's at any risk from covid.
I'd imagine travel will end up being restricted for him though without it.

@scottishskifun the 'money for the NHS' wasn't stolen and given to mates or family. It was spent on education and social care. Come on, please. Spending money on education and social care is not corruption. Neither is creating a vaccine application.

Morally this to me is so wrong when parts of the world still has vulnerable people who are crying out for vaccinations.

@Scottishskifun I don't believe that these are comparable no.

Creating a shit app isn't the same as not going through a tender process and paying a friend millions of pounds for PPE that doesn't work, for example.

500k wasted is appalling and should have been dealt with but is that comparable to the billions, literal billions, on a test and trace system that didn't work? Eh no not in my opinion no.

The SNP should of course be answerable to corruption the same as the Tories should but to suggest that it is the same scale isn't accurate in my opinion.

The problem is that nobody anywhere is being held accountable for anything. That has to change.

@shouldistop

I've been told the powers that be are looking at vaccinating 5-11 year olds next. I knew it would come. I don't particularly want my 5yo vaccinated. I don't think he's at any risk from covid. I'd imagine travel will end up being restricted for him though without it.

Not keen on having to make this decision myself tbh. Very pro vaccine as well.

[quote StarryEyeSurprise]@scottishskifun the 'money for the NHS' wasn't stolen and given to mates or family. It was spent on education and social care. Come on, please. Spending money on education and social care is not corruption. Neither is creating a vaccine application.[/quote]
They didn't need to spend the money on the vaccination cert though it was offered for free like it was to Wales (who are using it so yes it's a waste of money).
But it's not all been spent on social care and education, and if it's meant for the NHS then surely it should go there and not on schemes like free bikes, baby boxes to the masses or even things like paying people to move to the Islands....

As for stealing have they found the 600k of SNP donors money for indy ref 2 yet........

@alicesfavouritepen but the SNP also bypassed the tender process for PPE and then didn't use warehouse loads of it.... It wasn't to the same value or scale but like I said previously none of them can throw stones without stones coming back at them!

They all have aspects they are guilty of. If you hate corruption then you have to hate the majority of the parties out there as on one level or another they have all done it! Of course the tories is bad and runs deep but just because another party isn't as bad doesn't mean its any less acceptable to have corruption or bypass tender processes if its a lesser value.

Its a bit like saying its OK for a 5 year old to hit a teacher but not OK for a 9 year old...... None of it should be acceptable.

Erm, what?! Give me one example where the SNP gave millions to a politicians friends or family, for non existant PPE.

And the SG spending money on social care so it's free in this country , whereas in England it's hugely expensive (as in remortgaging one's home expensive). That is not corruption.by the SNP.

@StarryEyeSurprise

Erm, what?! Give me one example where the SNP gave millions to a politicians friends or family, for non existant PPE.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/19351930.scots-public-bodies-awarded-500m-worth-covid-contracts-approved-without-scrutiny/

I said bypassed the process which they did.

I have never said @starryeyesuprise that Tories don't have serious corruption in parts. I'm saying that the SNP also have questionable dealings as well (and also pointed out labour party who have millions spent on questionable defence contracts).

They are all at it.
Its your personal opinion that SNP haven't done anything wrong, I'm pointing out that actually they have and yes it's lesser extent but it's still dodgy at the end of the day and neither do they come up gleaming I mean their head of treasurey enquiries quit because they were denied proper access.... Its hardly exemplatory behaviour is it if their own party members quit?
Or just like the tories have members accused of sex scandals (much less but its still occurring within a party) .... Like Labour have had the same.

It's great to be passionate about the party you support but come on take off the rose tinted specs for even a second and be realistic. All parties have dodgy aspects somewhere.