Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

@Iwantthesummersun

It’s not Scotland wide if it’s not in my authority. I know that sounds rude but I’m not sure how else to put it. We get regular updates and ventilation and monitoring are never mentioned. If the union were genuinely going to do something about this they would have in August when it was all supposed to have happened for the return to school.

It does sound a bit rude. As you'll know the LAs work in partnership with the SG for certain things. Usually if the SG are providing something then the LAs/ schools have to apply for it. Like the ACM payment for example. Maybe your LA or school haven't done so for whatever reason. I don't know for certain but it seems a bit strange to ventilate some schools and not others.

I think I’m just a bit fed up, 20 months on, of being told constantly that there are safety measures in schools. Nope, there are really not. I have no social distancing due to my setting. No masks for children. My windows open 2 cm. There are no monitors and no extra ventilation measures. We had to close before the summer as rates were so high. We came pretty close to that again just before half term.

Rude was the wrong word. It should have been blunt. It may seem strange but it’s the reality in many school.

I think it's terrible the UK Government won't introduce measures like masks and covid passports for some settings, unless the NHS is under 'unsustainable pressure'. I have a family member who as in overall charge of a hospital . They plan for power cuts, natural disasters - pretty much anything to ensure care is continued. No wonder the head of the British Medical Association has accused the government of wilful negligence.

Iwantthesummersun it makes you weary, doesn't it. Enjoying my half term but this morning the "dread" is setting in - this is only partly Covid related and the rest just workload related.

@StarryEyeSurprise I think the UK government has this one about right actually. Restrictions shouldn't be the norm and should be reserved for extraordinary circumstances, and I think it's right to give more freedom to individuals to risk assess their own situations. Also don't forget that 'Plan B' is basically life up here, and it hasn't really done anything to stop peaks of infections rising and falling. If anything, hospital pressure is greater up here. Plan A, increasing booster vaccinations, will be much more effective as waning immunity in the elderly is what is most likely to cause COVID pressure in hospitals. The 'wilful negligence' goes way beyond COVID though, and something all administrations are guilty of.

[quote Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]@StarryEyeSurprise I think the UK government has this one about right actually. Restrictions shouldn't be the norm and should be reserved for extraordinary circumstances, and I think it's right to give more freedom to individuals to risk assess their own situations. Also don't forget that 'Plan B' is basically life up here, and it hasn't really done anything to stop peaks of infections rising and falling. If anything, hospital pressure is greater up here. Plan A, increasing booster vaccinations, will be much more effective as waning immunity in the elderly is what is most likely to cause COVID pressure in hospitals. The 'wilful negligence' goes way beyond COVID though, and something all administrations are guilty of.[/quote]
Of course you do. I'll stick to believing what the Head of the British Medical Association believes.

Whatever the UK government do or don't do is largely irrelevant as far as we are concerned. In Scotland, everything covid or health related is being driven by Scotgov and in the fine cabable hands of Swinney and Yusless and overseen by NS.

I don't understand why people are so keen for masks to be reintroduced in England, when it's fairly obvious they made little difference in Scotland.

@rookiemere I think a lot of people in England aren't aware that Scotland has essentially been implementing plan B since August, either that or they haven't been paying attention to the situation up here, or they're wilfully ignoring the data. It does seem pretty obvious that it makes little difference, but there seems to be a kind of 'emperor's new clothes' effect going on where some pretend not to see it. Maybe it's reassuring to believe that COVID can be controlled without lockdown or minimising social contacts?

Anyway, latest data from Pfizer looks very promising, with immunity after a third (booster) dose surpassing that with the two dose schedule! If we can get boosters into the vulnerable fast enough we should see pressure on the NHS drop off quite significantly (the pressure due to COVID anyway), and there'll be no need for plan B (which maybe/probably doesn't do much anyway). I'm feeling more optimistic this morning!

• 2,355 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 33,741 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 7.4% of these were positive
• 32 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 58 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 917 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,297,028 people have received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination and 3,886,176 have received their second dose

I think people take comfort from a visible sign that they are Doing Something with masks.

It’s a kind of comfort blanket. And the English media are screeching for masks/lockdown/restrictions all, as you say, @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us, without acknowledging their lack of success in the rest of the UK.

[quote Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]@rookiemere I think a lot of people in England aren't aware that Scotland has essentially been implementing plan B since August, either that or they haven't been paying attention to the situation up here, or they're wilfully ignoring the data. It does seem pretty obvious that it makes little difference, but there seems to be a kind of 'emperor's new clothes' effect going on where some pretend not to see it. Maybe it's reassuring to believe that COVID can be controlled without lockdown or minimising social contacts?

Anyway, latest data from Pfizer looks very promising, with immunity after a third (booster) dose surpassing that with the two dose schedule! If we can get boosters into the vulnerable fast enough we should see pressure on the NHS drop off quite significantly (the pressure due to COVID anyway), and there'll be no need for plan B (which maybe/probably doesn't do much anyway). I'm feeling more optimistic this morning![/quote]
You only need to look at some of the threads/comments on here to realise that there are a lot of folks that still buy into the tripe. The narrative seems to be that Masks up here stopped it being worse and continued use of masks is why it's coming down...

Someone started a thread suggesting that most people would be happy to have hospitality shut down for December if it guaranteed they'd be able to see their family.

Oh my god, @ElephantOfRisk that’s nuts about the Christmas thing!!

@WouldBeGood

Oh my god, *@ElephantOfRisk* that’s nuts about the Christmas thing!!

Yes completely. Unfortunately they didn't allow the voting thing but from the initial comments I read I think most did think it was batshit and that hospitality would not survive another lockdown and that people would do what they want as regards having folk round anyway.

Thank fuck for that at least: I was scared to look

@WouldBeGood It's the head of the British Medical Association who said masks must be re-introduced. Surely he knows what he's talking about.

I’m quite happy not to see family if I can carouse in hospitality

@WouldBeGood

Thank fuck for that at least: I was scared to look

I was scared to look much further....

@WouldBeGood

I’m quite happy not to see family if I can carouse in hospitality

Given December is a key period for the hospitality industry it's bonkers. Also assumes that most people will spend Christmas with extended family. If I don't get my trip to the pub this Christmas day I will be really cross.

[quote Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]@rookiemere I think a lot of people in England aren't aware that Scotland has essentially been implementing plan B since August, either that or they haven't been paying attention to the situation up here, or they're wilfully ignoring the data. It does seem pretty obvious that it makes little difference, but there seems to be a kind of 'emperor's new clothes' effect going on where some pretend not to see it. Maybe it's reassuring to believe that COVID can be controlled without lockdown or minimising social contacts?

Anyway, latest data from Pfizer looks very promising, with immunity after a third (booster) dose surpassing that with the two dose schedule! If we can get boosters into the vulnerable fast enough we should see pressure on the NHS drop off quite significantly (the pressure due to COVID anyway), and there'll be no need for plan B (which maybe/probably doesn't do much anyway). I'm feeling more optimistic this morning![/quote]
Yes, I agree with this, and wouldbegood. I think people want to think that "Something Is Being Done" whether or not that is effective. Because all the careless, selfish people have stopped wearing masks to protect meeeee and I want them to do it again, because I never stopped.

I think if they (NS or BJ) were really serious about masks actually reducing spread they'd make it a requirement to have "proper" FFP2 (?) masks rather than "face coverings". I'd hate that. I've said before my severe dislike of "normal people" using disposable masks... which would be worse if they were required for everyone, rather than people just choosing to use them because they feel safer in them. Pricier too, as well as being an environmental shit show and much more difficult for many people to wear who can maybe just about cope with a scarf or something. But unarguably more efficient at preventing spread, and surely another way the Govs could ensure more money making its way to chosen suppliers/ mates... But because neither gov has mandated them, I think its clear that masks are primarily just for show rather than as an actual spread- reducing technique.

Actually, someone on the BBC website was saying that one of the parts of the "English Plan B" has actually been implemented... I. E. further encouragement to step up with measures like masks and social distancing, because things are getting a bit hairy out there (technical term ). So it's not really a case of "nothing is being done" like we are being led to believe. To be fair, it may be that people don't take notice of that, and they have to bring in "legal" masks/passports at some point, but IMO the impact should be the same... To "jolt" people back into considering their everyday actions when there is still a respiratory virus around, spreading through close contact and respiratory droplets in stuffy, unventilated environments. The masks/passports themselves have very little impact on cases (as proven up here) but the fact they are around just makes people more aware, and may discourage some people from eg going to the pub the day before going to visit gran in a care home, or whatever...

I also think the "plan c" being talked about is a further extension of that. "Come on, if you're not careful about this on your own accord, we're going to have to start introducing more restrictions again". Of course, up here we've had that sword being dangled over us pretty constantly so we know it's always just around the corner, no matter what we do!

@ResilienceWanker I keep saying that about the masks. It's like we're completely clueless about what one of the differences could be between us and other European countries, but in other countries it's the proper masks and the price of them is reasonable.
I'm not overly keen on masks but if I have to wear one it would make sense for it to be vaguely effective ( and yes I could buy my own but double vaccinated and not that bothered if I catch Covid)

[quote StarryEyeSurprise]@WouldBeGood It's the head of the British Medical Association who said masks must be re-introduced. Surely he knows what he's talking about.[/quote]
They also estimated that hospitals would be overrun in England in July with easing and they weren't.

Tbh we have the military assisting lots of hospitals now in Scotland..... Where we have had masks throughout so it's a reasonable challenge to say it won't make numbers magically drop! The blocking of beds and movement away of funds from NHS funding is causing effects however.

@ResilienceWanker yep FFP2 or FFP3 masks are the ones which actually stop the smaller particle size either escaping or being breathed in. Parts of Germany they are madatory on public transport for instance. Which does make sense as a poorly ventilated environment.

I think the focus on masks is a bit of a red hearing as it's cheap to point the finger at instead of what the actual greatest risk is which is poor ventilation. But this is obviously expensive to rectify in most settings especially shock horror old schools, councils, libraries etc! Some elements are getting addressed but given they have known about ventilation aspect since May all govts have been slow to act on improving it!

The public health specialists all know that build up of virus occurs in poorly ventilated environments and escapes masks they have even done webinar and updates on it to EHOs months ago!

I think other countries did better because they have better health services, and better health generally

The BMA is a trade union.
They are also opposing GPs doing more face to face consultations