Guilt Free Railing 9

[WouldBeGood]

Nine!!!

We're going to see more countries doing this
Ireland and France have already introduced it for indoor hospitality not just for nightclubs

@starryeyesuprise the article is incorrect in fact there is a whole section on the HSE website on assessing ventilation in workplaces and CO2 monitoring.
Businesses have to provide risk assessments to EHOs on measures including ventilation risk.
Any company can be reported and investigated by the council or HSE regardless of covid law being taken out in England as it falls under other existing legislation. It would appear that the author hasn't bothered to do their basic homework on this aspect of how businesses are operating!

Yes FFP2 or even better FFP3 are the only things which offer full protection, they are also more expensive and in high global demand. I have long pointed out on here about ventilation risk.

The SG is no better though as no govt wishes to scare monger the most focus on the subject and real risk is poses up here is an advert about opening windows and sitting outside!

Again this virus is never going away, it is never going to be possible for it to be zero in any country which went for moderation control rather than zero control. That ship sailed a very long time ago and in fact then has a different issue of no immunity.

How long would you propose we live under strict restrictions for? 2/5/10 years? As its never buggering off no matter how much we all wish it to! We are far better investing and setting up long covid clinics and pushing vaccinations!

My DDs are only toddlers so it's not an issue but i wouldn't vaccinate them if they were older and offered as we just don't know the long term effects of this vaccine yet. I've had my own, but I'm happier taking risks with my own health than theirs, tbh, especially where their chances of becoming seriously ill from covid are so slim.

This is actually why I'm pissed off that the EIS are apparently calling for 12-18 year olds to be vaccinated. I'm an EIS member and they're not speaking for me on that.

Across the world countless scientists and experts think the same @StarryEyeSurprise. Yet Boris and the freedom fighting crew know better.

Post after post written by armchair scientists who think they know better but can't spell basic words.

I think the SG have decided to follow JCVI advice and only offer the vaccine to vulnerable teenagers rather than across the board (which I agree with btw - if there are any doubts over safety, which there appear to be wrt heart damage - we can't risk doing harm to a generation of teenagers just to make the rest of us feel safer). I'm not sure how the EIS think they're going to win this one.

@forfucksakenett

Across the world countless scientists and experts think the same *@StarryEyeSurprise*. Yet Boris and the freedom fighting crew know better.

Post after post written by armchair scientists who think they know better but can't spell basic words.

There are also countless scientists who agree shifting the peak to summer reduces the stress on healthcare system later on.

None of my friends in England have had a burn the mask party, majority are choosing to use them still including in their work settings.

Picking on people's spelling is also very petty! I say this as some with a scientific background, my job involves scientific assessment and I'm dyslexic, my spelling is terrible spell check doesn't pick up on everything however it doesn't effect my ability to assess scientific information for my job!

I agree it's petty. Not something I would do with your average poster. I think, however, that if someone wants to be an insufferable know it all then poor spelling does detract from the strength of their argument, particularly on an anonymous forum.

We all make mistakes, of course, but on Twitter in particular some of the expressions of freedom have been ... something.

Actually @forfucksakenett most of the scientists I respect, from Chris Whitty to Tim Spector, seem to agree that on balance the logic of getting the exit wave out of the way in the summer is sound. Even Neil Ferguson who is predicting 100,000s of cases a day is still broadly in favour of the plan. No-one is pretending that there won't be increases in hospitalisations and long COVID etc. (plus a small number of deaths), but most seem to accept that waiting will be worse all round. It's looking increasingly like vaccines won't completely hold back infections, ZOE shows that the epidemic is now increasing in the vaccinated while the unvaccinated levels off, which makes the argument about waiting till everyone is fully vaxxed so that we can control it like Measles a bit of a nonsense. All we would do is push the (absolutely inevitable) peak into the Autumn/winter where we are already under pressure. I'm a bit worried that SG hesitancy and the inability to accept that there won't be a 'safe' time will lead to absolute carnage over the Winter. We still seem to be listening to the types of 'zero COVID' voices who assured us it was possible to eliminate a usually mild and highly mutable virus that easily flies under the radar. I genuinely hope I'm wrong on that.

@Haudyourwheesht

This is actually why I'm pissed off that the EIS are apparently calling for 12-18 year olds to be vaccinated. I'm an EIS member and they're not speaking for me on that.

Yes, unions often go off on a particular tangent, claiming they are speaking for and protecting their members, without either asking the members, or taking into account that many think differently! DH is a member of UCU (universities and colleges union) who have gone full on "we should never have to go back to campus or see any students face to face ever again" and he could not disagree more! For many sound pedagogical and work/life balance reasons, but also, they don't seem to have realised that claiming a 5 year old lecture recording is the same as employing someone to do a lecture, or that one person can lead an online seminar for hundreds of students as easily as face to face, could maybe be asking for lots of academics (and other support staff) to be put out of a job...?! And this was the same union who a couple of years ago were claiming recording lectures was an infringement of workers rights and they shouldn't have to do them as a condition of their employment...

Scottishskifun I have always found all of your posts interesting and very informative.
It’s clear you have a scientific background and the perspective that gives is really valuable.
Also, your experience of Long COVID has give us great insight into the condition and (lack of) treatment options.
I hope your health is improving every day.

@forfucksakenett I have no idea if your pettiness is aimed at me frankly I don't care if the basis of your argument is spelling as its pretty ridiculous!

Its incorrect to say the majority of scientists are fully against English rule changes though and scientists always challenge each other all the time its the nature of science without it we would probably still believe the world is still flat!

@umpteenthtime thanks some days are better than others I seem to have a bit of a pick up since my second jab but I also know that this might just be short lived it's nice to have a fever free day though!
😂 I am quite sad in that I enjoy reading different scientific papers and studies but they are difficult to follow and media papers tend to dramatise and cherry pick aspects without the context continously. Which, from speaking to family does cause concern hence I always think it's worth putting those headlines or statements into perspective.

Yes @ResilienceWanker
UCU stance is like turkeys voting for Christmas
They're going to discover in 5 yrs time there's lot less students "going" to university for a largely online course particularly English students who pay tuition fees

And how come the EIS are calling for something the JCVI doesn't recommend for children due to risk of harm🤷🏼‍♀️

The EIS is a disgrace, has been throughout this.

To play devil's advocate, the EIS are just doing what experts like Devi whatsit have been doing.

They have ONE focus - to protect their teacher members. And yes, the absolute best way of protecting teachers would be to ensure either no children are in school, or all children are vaccinated. Just like Devi and her mates wanting to keep us all locked up for ever in pursuit of her sole aim of zero covid.

They aren't considering any other factor such as mental health, education, the economy, just putting forward one very narrow point of view.

However, you would think that a teaching union would also consider children's education, but obviously not.

@Lockdownbear and @runningpink I'm someone who isn't desperately unwell but can't have the vaccines, or at least I don't feel I can risk it.

I had a bad reaction - was badly injured, really - by a completely unrelated medication, an antibiotic, a few years ago. Damaged my tendons, ligaments, nervous system, ears... was a bit of a mess. I was really unwell for a while, particularly with the nervous system stuff. I'm now doing much better but it is a chronic condition for that I will have for the rest of my life and I do live with some issues day to day, but nothing like the hell and horror of when I was really bad.

The other thing that it unfortunately did to me, and which many others in my support group struggle with, is that I no longer tolerate many medications that I was previously absolutely fine with. They seem to somehow re-injure me and, worst case, put me back in that state of acute illness that I had initially.

So no painkillers. Antibiotics I would only take for life-threatenig infections. And I don't even want to think about what would happen if I needed for example cancer treatment.
I actually begged my dentist to take my cracked tooth root out with no anaesthetic. She didn't, but she used a modified technique to use a fraction of the normal amount, an injection directly into the tooth tendon. And I still reacted badly.

Having said all this, none of my health issues are those that put me at additional risk of covid, and in fact I probably had it right at the start after travelling on a ferry full of ski trippers returning from Italy.
So in my case getting the vaccine would be literally insane. I'd be risking huge complications for something that isn't remotely a serious illness for me.
Apart from the unpleasantness of a relase, which is deeply traumatic, there's the logistical issue. I have a DH who travels for work and when I'm really bad I'm in no state to be alone. We already lost so much money at the start of lockdown.

I'm vanishingly unlikely to darken the doors of a nightclub but I'm very concerned indeed about mission creep, and extremely concerned about travel.

I can only hope that my consultant supports me on this in terms of agreeing that I should be exempted, but who knows.
So yeah.... fun times, really.

Sorry to dump all of this on a thread that I really just lurk on sporadically but after yesterday's announcement I just wanted to raise a bit of awareness about why some people may have very good reasons not to take the vaccine but at the same time might not be desperately unwell otherwise.

@StarryEyeSurprise I've disagreed with you quite vehemently in the past but your post at 08:52 is spot on. At the moment I'm pathetally grateful at anyone remembering those that can't have vaccines so thank you.

I was chatting to an auxiliary nurse at the vaccination centre and he was adamant that absolutely everyone can have the vaccine, even all children
Quite worrying that he was spouting that whilst standing in his nhs uniform.

I do think though that restrictions need lifted notwithstanding that there are those who can’t be vaccinated.

I do think though that restrictions need lifted notwithstanding that there are those who can’t be vaccinated

Sorry, I should clarify. I was glad to see that some people remember that not everyone can be vaccinated, but I totally agree that restrictions should be lifted anyway. If there's one thing I learned the hard way it's that quality of life is the most important thing. There's little point being alive to be miserable.

Quite @MaxNormal. I’m cracking on and want to do stuff and see things and go places. Feeling wistful today for all the trips..

I'm definitely for restrictions being lifted. I do feel for parents of very vulnerable children though

@maxnormal your GP should be able to provide you with a letter for most scenarios (I have one for mask exemption) but it will definitely be difficult for travel going forward. I can't see them getting rid of quarantine rule for non vaccinated people anytime soon especially for countries people want to travel to not just the UK list of Amber countries.

It is frustrating at the thought of having to carry around a letter though which is what double jabbed Scots will have to do as well as no app system.

@Scottishskifun I hope so. I'm seeing my consultant again in September so I'll speak to him then.

I don't have a problem with quarantining or testing, quarantine tbh is no skin off my nose as I don't work outside the home, but I do have a big worry of some things just being a flat-out no and of basically finding normal living increasingly difficult and this becoming the new norm. I don't know, maybe I'm catastrophising. I hope so. What a time to be alive.