Is Scotland becoming anti Semitic?

[boompah]

Jewish friends thinking of leaving Glasgow for London. Feeling there has been a political shift where they are feeling isolated.

I find it so sad and not something I've been aware of but don't want to diminish their experiences.

Anyone hearing similar comments?

It really does bemuse me why every discussion on antisemitism in the UK is almost immediately brought down to "but Israel/ but Palestine... you just can't criticise the Israeli government without being accused of being antisemitic" and so on. It doesn't happen with any other kind of racism as far as I can see. No one claims that Muslims experiencing islamophobia in the uk are just confused because people don't approve of the shameful women's rights in Dubai and that's what they are experiencing when they are being beaten up or shouted at... or that anti Catholic bias is understandable because of the abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. It's perfectly easy for most people to separate the actions of a government - whether or not the government of the homeland of a particular person - from abuse or discrimination experienced by that same person. There is a defined difference between political comment and "hateful" behaviour aimed at a particular minority group.

Anything implying that the OP's friends are somehow responsible for or complicit in the actions of the Israeli government, just because they are Jews, surely is antisemitic. Hence "you people are always doing this..." is disgusting . Also, I'm not sure why there needs to be "evidence of a credible serious increase" in antisemitism before it can be believed that the OP's friends are worried by it, and that is what they have experienced. From what I've heard, a lot of Jews feel the same across the UK (don't know if Scotland is particularly worse or not) and that is a huge worry.

The Labour Party has at least recognised that there was "a culture within the party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent anti-Semitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it" - and is working to address that (admittedly the change in leadership did a fair amount of that). I suppose the SNP in Scotland has a similar membership base to Labour in England / Wales so there may well be the same underlying issues, albeit there wasn't as much tacit approval of them via the leadership. Equally, though, there hasn't been the push to expel members who are openly antisemitic (though I think a few councillors and one MP candidate were suspended around the 2019 election... though the MP was quietly let back in before he defected to ALBA!) So I think it's not surprising that the OP's friends are feeling somewhat marginalised and wary. And that is awful.

[quote Duke4]@StarryEyeSurprise
So herein lies the problem: surely I must condemn (assume you meant this, rather than condone, as you wrote?) the Israeli government re Gaza? Absolutely. But why should British Jews be browbeaten to condemn a country they cannot even vote in? A country they have a deep connection with, as Jews, a country which is persistently demonised. The creepy obsession with Israel is troubling when other states with worse human rights abuses are ignored, revered even. Have you read the Hamas charter? This is not whataboutery , this is at the heart of contemporary antisemitism.[/quote]
Yes I had a two year old wriggling over me when I wrote my post.

But you said there is no apartheid from the Israeli Government? Or was that another poster? That's why you were asked re Gaza. As it is an ongoing Apartheid.

As I said before - I loved my time in Israel. I still keep in touch with some friends in Jerusalem and I'm sure I'll go back.

I've studied under well respected professors (Israeli and Palestinian) in Jerusalem. 'A creepy obsession with Israel '. Hmm. People can call out the horror inflicted on people ( especially children) living in Gaza. This is not 'contemporary antisemitism'. What garbage.

I'm probably going to say something ignorant here, but it's a pity there couldn't be a major land reclamation into the sea to create more land and space and have two countries.

I suppose that's very simplistic.

Certainly my friends see Israel as a safety net that is the one assurance of a second Holocaust being repeated so it is all sort of linked in.

Why is life so complicated and full of hate.

I'm not surprised your friends are feeling threatened. Jewish people in Glasgow are a small minority, in a city with a sizable pro-Palestinian Muslim population, whose council occasionally flies the Palestinian flag, in a country whose First Minister feels obliged to make her sympathies clear.

The activist left has an obsession with this conflict above all others, for reasons I can't quite fathom (I think because it plays perfectly into their moral superiority fantasies). And the activist left has always had a foothold in Glasgow, and now also in government in Scotland.

I think median opinion is probably much more sympathetic than activist opinion on the left, but all we hear is voices from the latter.

Supporting Palestine and questioning the actions of Isreal is not anti semitic

This is such a tough situation. I despise the Israeli government for what they've done but if I met a Jewish person in the street I'd treat them no differently to a Christian or a Hindu as they don't represent the state of Israel. No doubt my views will still be labelled anti Semitic because that seems to be the go-to response to criticism of Israel. I've genuinely never seen an instance of anti Semitic behaviour or heard someone make an anti Semitic comment in my life but I've heard plenty of people vocalise their disgust at the Israeli government.

I don’t understand why people pin themselves to the Palestinian cause above all other world conflicts though. What about the Uighurs? The Rohingas? The schoolgirls that keep being abducted in Africa, the oppression of women in Iran, Afghanistan etc etc?

I recently saw a David Baddiel quote where he suggested that people cling to the Palestinian cause above all others as it gives them an excuse to highlight Jews = bad while claiming not to be antisemetic. For some people that is certainly true.

The fact that there are people being abused all over the world doesn't mean the Israel/Palestine conflict shouldn't be spoken about. People need to know about human rights issues across the world or nothing will change. When I was growing up I really thought Israel was a peaceful, modern and democratic country. I'm sure others made the same mistake.

I don't even know where to begin with the other examples you've given. It's a horrible situation to know that these things are happening the world over and feel so helpless. All we can do is talk about it until enough people are outraged and the powers that be, actually do something.

This discussion makes me incredibly angry.
I’m not surprised your friends feel there’s been a political shift, Op as it seems there’s an increasingly narrow view of which groups ‘fit’ in today’s Scotland.
The Jewish population should be able to live in Scotland or anywhere else in the world for that matter and feel safe, respected and supported by their fellow citizens and by the law.
They are our friends and neighbours and a valued part of our communities.

Bringing Israel into this conversation is totally unacceptable.
How are Glaswegian Jews in any way responsible for the policies of a govt thousands of miles away?
They are not.
Sadly, it’s no surprise to read some of the comments on this thread.

@UmpteenthTime

This discussion makes me incredibly angry. I’m not surprised your friends feel there’s been a political shift, Op as it seems there’s an increasingly narrow view of which groups ‘fit’ in today’s Scotland. The Jewish population should be able to live in Scotland or anywhere else in the world for that matter and feel safe, respected and supported by their fellow citizens and by the law. They are our friends and neighbours and a valued part of our communities.

Bringing Israel into this conversation is totally unacceptable.
How are Glaswegian Jews in any way responsible for the policies of a govt thousands of miles away?
They are not.
Sadly, it’s no surprise to read some of the comments on this thread.

The OP was the first person to introduce Israel as they said their friends were thinking of moving there.

I must have missed the post where someone said that anyone apart from the Israeli Government were responsible for the actions of the Israeli Government.

The Op didn’t mention Israel in their first post.
If you want to discuss Israel and Palestine start a thread discussing that.
These threads always go the same way.
I’ve made my point.
Sadly, it seems increasingly important to underline the fact that British Jews are not responsible for the actions of the Israeli govt, otherwise why would posters be talking about Gaza in relation to Jewish citizens feeling unsafe, uncomfortable in Glasgow, Scotland or anywhere else.