Anyone else unsure who to vote for?

[swiggless]

Used to be a Labour supporter but they don't stand in my constituency (or when they do, they come 5th or 6th). It's between SNP, Lib Dem and Tories (in that order) here. I physically can't vote for the latter two, however I'm not enthusiastic to vote SNP, despite voting for them previously. Greens aren't standing either. I hate the idea of spoiling my ballot but I genuinely don't know what to do. Anyone else in the same situation (not necessarily stuck between the same parties)?

Here is one guide, by constituency:
www.vote21.scot/?fbclid=IwAR11hPc22S0mfCp0IeSNu984MB-tfNxEfdg5l95N6qcqcO3nRA_GlD_qn6Y

My postal vote said, "Adult human female", on it when I sent it back.
First time ever I've spoiled one.
It was either that or not vote.

So, even if SNP had a better deal on woman's rights, it wouldn't get my vote

to be honest, I'd kind of guessed that.

So, even if SNP had a better deal on woman's rights, it wouldn't get my vote

to be honest, I'd kind of guessed that.

Also think it speaks volumes that other parties have devoted a section to women in their manifestos and Tories haven't. Don't think they even use the word once.

Incorrect if you actually go onto their full manifesto rather than just the easy read/quick one.
Has sections on preventing violence against women, improving apprenticeship opportunities for women and innovation workplace for women along with equality section.

Not a Tory supporter but it's incorrect to say they don't mention women at all in it when they do.

Plus you know, the other parties have ground to make up to win over women, because they voted in HCB, with a few brave MSP exceptions. I'm not sure if I'm going to cast a list vote for the tories tomorrow yet but they stood alone opposing it in the final vote.

Actions and all that.

Yeah the Tories have a great track record with women and if I recall correctly their objections to the HCB were to do with freedom of speech and prosecution in the home. The most vociferous defenders of women were Joan McAlpine and Johanne Lamont.

If people want to vote Tory then vote Tory but using women as an excuse is very strange.

Three measly mentions of women in amongst their full manifesto? And I'm taking the word of a pop on that. I've scanned the boring thing four times now and nothing leapt out at me. Not a mention of halting or stopping the GRA and I couldn't see a suggestion that they would repeal the HCB either? Could have missed that one though to be fair.

Me too Charlie brown - thinking of list vote for the Tories for the first time in my life, eek. I can't bear them, but when I wrote to my list Tory MSP, he acknowledged my concerns about women's rights and didn't vote for the HCB.

You have to decide what the most important issue for you is.

For many of us, stopping the SNP and preventing another referendum is the utmost priority. Far, far more important than anything else you might consider in a "normal" election like education, women's rights, healthcare, taxation.

I am not a natural Labour voter and haven't voted Labour since 1997. But I'm voting Labour tomorrow because they are best placed to stop the SNP on the constituency vote. To be blunt, their other policies don't really matter to me.

The most vociferous defenders of women were Joan McAlpine and Johanne Lamont.

And Murdo Fraser and the entirety of the Tory MSPs.

@RedactedTaeFeck

The most vociferous defenders of women were Joan McAlpine and Johanne Lamont.

And Murdo Fraser and the entirety of the Tory MSPs.

Sure lol

But @forfucksakenett and @happygolurkey when the SNP say women they include men.

And the SNP has tried to get rid of Joan McAlpine because of her stance on women

Three measly mentions of women in amongst their full manifesto? And I'm taking the word of a pop on that.

Sorry I'm not quite sure what you mean by this @forfucksakenett?
What on earth is a pop?! I'm assuming this was aimed at me!

@WouldBeGood

But *@forfucksakenett and @happygolurkey* when the SNP say women they include men.

And the SNP has tried to get rid of Joan McAlpine because of her stance on women

Well their definition of women includes trans women.

Pp it should have been. No need to be so defensive.

It means that while they do mention women three times I don't think that makes them the shining saviours of women people are claiming they are.

@forfucksakenett I've scanned the boring thing four times now and nothing leapt out at me. Not a mention of halting or stopping the GRA and I couldn't see a suggestion that they would repeal the HCB either? Could have missed that one though to be fair.

Yep you did
P10 - apprenticeships last paragraph increasing women
P30 - families
P40 - violence against women
P40 - Repealing hate crime
P44 - boosting innovation aiming at women
P51 equal opportunities

It's called the search function on a pdf 😉

This thread is not helping me at all!

Gah!

Well their definition of women includes trans women.

It also includes Self defined "trans women" with a very low threshold in what is required to declare yourself a woman.

3 mentions to 6. Fab! Still not the saviours of women. Not even close.

Yep. Self id and all. I'm not totally comfortable with it either obviously because of my worries about those who might exploit it. I need to believe that the vast majority of people who transition or identify as another gender are legitimate and will benefit from these changes in some way.

I also think we need to accept that this is happening whether we like it or not so that a sensible conversation can be had about protecting all parties going forward. That conversation isn't going to happen if people insist on referring to transwomen as men.

yes, that's me been through manifesto five times now - finally found some reference to women. yes, very 'scant' as you say FFSnet

the 'equalities' bit says: 'We will tackle prejudice and discrimination in all forms to ensure no one is held back from succeeding due to their race, sexuality, gender, religion or disability'

Haud me back.

WouldbeGood. We've been down this road before about Joan McAlpine - one of the frequent times you've told me it's 'hopeless' discussing anything with me - when you couldn't really come up with a rational argument.

This theory about her being put second on the list - Dumfriesshire got three list MSP's last time so it's highly unlikely Joan McAlpine won't get one, even if she is second on the list. (although she's also in with a fighting chance for her constituency seat having lost to just over 1000 votes last time). Also, as I said before when this theory came up - it's not as if it's only her constituency that's affected - it's every constituency. Nicola Sturgeon herself is second on the list - so is John Swinney (whose standing against Murdo Fraser in a seat not unknown for swinging to the Tories). I've not been through every constituency but I'll wager there's tonnes of examples. Are the SNP really going to bring in a policy putting all these key people at risk just to 'get' Joan McAlpine? if they wanted rid of her they'd have just parachuted someone else in to stand for her constituency seat instead.
This just seems like another one of these things Wings come up with that gets repeated ad finem till everyone accepts it as fact.

Also, Nicola Sturgeon was out campaigning with Joan McAlpine yesterday. Have a look at her twitter. She tweeted: 'Great to welcome Nicola Sturgeon to Dumfries to support my campaign to win Dumfriesshire for the SNP.'

Interesting that it says gender and not sex. Just saying.

To be honest, I think this thread and others demonstrate the divisiveness and bitterness caused by the never ending constitutional question.

I have absolutely no issue with transpeople who have undergone the appropriate treatment being properly accepted and included in their chosen sex and having the appropriate rights.

3 people from DSs primary class are trans, 2 M to F and 1 F to M. All were lovely kids and I am sure they are equally lovely now. the M to F have both completely transitioned but the F to M hasn't yet. I know none of these young people are in any way a threat.

However, I'm not comfortable that any tom, dick or harry can just decide that they fancy access to women's spaces or services and that women have to accommodate that.

Who determines what the appropriate treatment is though? It's too complex for that. All that results in is forcing young people down a surgical route (assuming that's what you mean) when that might not be appropriate for them.

No @WouldBeGood it's surely just people expressing different opinions. Different not divisive.

OP, I've been politically adrift for years. Think about the issues that matter to you, where you live in Scotland. For me, it's:

14 years of abysmal funding for our local authority
Centralisation of police and fire & rescue services
The crippled state of social care provision.
The unfinished ferries fiasco.