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Ding Ding Ding! Round 5 Salmond and Sturgeon

976 replies

Blurberoo · 20/03/2021 09:46

New thread...

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Drawsapic · 21/03/2021 20:46

Am I being naive? I think it would suit the tories very well if doubt is cast on Nicola it will suit them to get rid of her..Also, what? Salmon has how many serious charges against him compared to what exactly?

WaxOnFeckOff · 21/03/2021 20:49

Am I being naive?

Yes.

Salmond doesn't have any charges against him. he had a trial and was found not guilty and one charge of not proven which he had already admitted to and apologised for.

It will suit everyone to get rid of a lying FM that thinks she can ride roughshod over the truth and the running of the country.

boobashka · 21/03/2021 21:04

Should be an interesting week ahead:
Hamilton report being published, committee report due, rumours swirling of mismanagement of SNP finances... Will NS, PM et al still have jobs by the end of the week?

anon444877 · 21/03/2021 21:05

Whatever Nicola's motivations were, there were so many mistakes in going after Salmond that he's untouchable now and it's made it less likely any other big beasts will face retrospective prosecution.

I can't tell - certainly what was reported in the press about the evidence made it look as if the verdict was the correct one.

fandabbydoozy · 21/03/2021 21:24

will the hamilton result be leaked? Will NS know the result before the media? Will the result be kept quiet for as long as possible or will some of the better results be shared instead? I wouldn't put it past the SNP to try to keep it quiet.

WaxOnFeckOff · 21/03/2021 22:08

Read this about James Hamilton:

He was appointed an independent advisor by SNP in 2013 and reappointed by Nicola Sturgeon in 2015.

My hopes for something completely independent are not as high as they might be.

As far as I know there is no date yet for that report. It's the committee one that's due on Tuesday.

Happinessisawarmcervix · 21/03/2021 22:11

The complainers have now complained that their private evidence session has been leaked to a newspaper. Rape Crisis Scotland issued the statement.

I’m still suspicious that the actions complained of were in the press in 2014 - shoelace, hand sanitiser.

WaxOnFeckOff · 21/03/2021 22:17

Maybe they are ashamed of how ridiculous it all sounds and the fact that they are talking about stuff from 7 years ago?

fandabbydoozy · 21/03/2021 22:22

yeah I was wondering how independent Hamilton would be too....

Happinessisawarmcervix · 21/03/2021 22:27

@fandabbydoozy

yeah I was wondering how independent Hamilton would be too....
Salmond was very positive about him in his evidence session but I suppose anyone can be threatened into toeing the approved line :(
WaxOnFeckOff · 21/03/2021 22:33

I'm hoping that his legal position would mean that he would be true to the moral obligations of the task.

I think questions will be asked if his conclusions are vastly different from the committee.

Hopefully he confirms the date or releases his report shortly. I think it will be difficult to justify it not being concluded prior to the election.

TheShadowyFeminist · 21/03/2021 23:14

I'm hoping that his legal position would mean that he would be true to the moral obligations of the task.

This seems reasonable. And then I think of James Wolfe & 🤷🏻‍♀️

WaxOnFeckOff · 21/03/2021 23:18

Yeah, I'm hoping he's more of a Dunlop than a wolfe

RonSwan · 22/03/2021 05:52

My thoughts on this exactly @WaxOnFeckOff. The SNP are never going to pick someone for the post who might actually be a threat to them surely. And how can you be appointed “independent advisor” when you are the one doing the appointing? There will always be a conflict of interest there.

Perhaps a independent audit of how exactly the Scottish Government manages Conflicts of Interest would make interesting reading. I’d place bets on there being no mitigants at all.

RonSwan · 22/03/2021 05:54

And how can you appoint an “independent advisor” when you are the one doing the appointing?

(Sorry typing too quickly first version didn’t make sense)

StatisticallyChallenged · 22/03/2021 07:42

To be fair appointing and paying for an independent advisor isn't unheard of in certain sectors - I've been involved in it in a different professional sector where one firm pays for an independent expert to compile a report, but they have absolutely no influence over the contents which are reviewed in court. However in that particular circumstance one thing which is taken in to consideration is the past relationship between the bill payer and they independent expert - the appointment has to be reviewed and the same person will generally only be allowed to be appointed once or twice before they are considered no longer independent.

SempreSuiGeneris · 22/03/2021 07:46

On Hamilton he is independent in the sense of having been appointed by both Salmond and Sturgeon to advise the SNP.

On the question of the need for a fully independent judge led inquiry I am starting to come full circle.

The conclusion of the fully independent Judicial Review was that the SG complaint handling in the first place was unlawful. That was the judgement and unless anyone is seriously arguing that the SG was acting without consulting NS (which they aren't) why is anyone even bothering to ask about the rest?

The more I read the more it looks like the Parliamentary Committee and Hamilton were in fact designed to whitewash the original independent findings of wrondoing.

fandabbydoozy · 22/03/2021 08:03

In my previous employment, they often commissioned "independent" research, only to then try to influence how it was conducted, the results, then, if they didn't like the outcome, my employer would be like "what research?" - it was buried. This was in a a NDPB

As for Hamilton, he investigated , he welsh FM for breaking the ministerial code and ruled he didn't. Not too dissimilar either

RonSwan · 22/03/2021 08:32

in my previous employment, they often commissioned "independent" research, only to then try to influence how it was conducted, the results, then, if they didn't like the outcome, my employer would be like "what research?" - it was buried.

Ditto. Seen this play out a number of times in my career.

ResilienceWanker · 22/03/2021 08:39

I think it is possible to pay for independent advice without it being biased. I give such advice for my job, and while I "help" the client as much as possible, ultimately I am beholden to the code of practice of my professional organisation. So if the client asks me to audit/ assess their "final product" without having taken on board any of the preceding advice, it will be a "bad" review that won't get them what they need (and I'll tell them that and make further suggestions as to what could get them over the line!).

But it sounds like Hamilton hasn't been asked to provide "advice" as such, but make a judgement on whether or not a line has been crossed - without my safety net of being able to say, "well, that's crap, but if we add this to your final product it will be less crap and I'll redo the assessment for you". He has to assess what has already been done, and that assessment could have real and immediate consequences that can't be dealt with by changing a policy or tweaking a process before the next audit. I imagine that's far harder to do truly independently when the person who appointed you has, literally, their job on the line. So it does seem an odd way of establishing an independent review.

Blurberoo · 22/03/2021 08:47

Craig Murray has been found guilty of contempt!!! Will Dani Garavelli get her collar felt? I doubt it!

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StatisticallyChallenged · 22/03/2021 08:48

Wow. She should, but she won't.

Happinessisawarmcervix · 22/03/2021 08:50

@Blurberoo

Craig Murray has been found guilty of contempt!!! Will Dani Garavelli get her collar felt? I doubt it!
Bloody hell. Poor man.
TheShadowyFeminist · 22/03/2021 08:52

@Blurberoo

Craig Murray has been found guilty of contempt!!! Will Dani Garavelli get her collar felt? I doubt it!
I think his case has been treated appallingly. Dani Garavelli gave information in her article that did far more in terms of jigsaw identification. It does beg the Q why she's still sitting without being dragged to court.
ATieLikeRichardGere · 22/03/2021 08:52

Oh no poor Craig Murray.