Ding Ding Ding! Round 5 Salmond and Sturgeon

[Blurberoo]

New thread...

I agree re the HoL - it's importance has been evident recently. Not having a second chamber has been incredibly damaging across a number of bills the SNP has pushed. There's not enough scrutiny & oversight. The passage of the HCB is the most recent but glaring example of this.

I genuinely dread what comes next from the SNP. It feels like we've sleep-walked into a nightmare.

Yep, I feel that a win for them in May, sadly inevitable given the calibre and policies of the opposition, will be taken as a validation of all their dodgy doings up to now. ‘Let the electorate decide in May’. We are going to go the same way that Canada has gone (jailing people for not using pronouns) with a crap education and health system and feck all we can do about it, even talk about it, without committing a criminal offence.

@TheShadowyFeminist

I agree re the HoL - it's importance has been evident recently. Not having a second chamber has been incredibly damaging across a number of bills the SNP has pushed. There's not enough scrutiny & oversight. The passage of the HCB is the most recent but glaring example of this.

I genuinely dread what comes next from the SNP. It feels like we've sleep-walked into a nightmare.

Is the issue that Holyrood was designed for coalition government so the expectation was that any legislation would be bargained over by the coalition partners? The SNP having so many seats was definitely not in the plan, IIRC.

[quote readsalotgirl63]**@happygolurkey* I've not seen anyone here saying they had been going to vote SNP and changed their mind in the course of this thread, but I'm maybe wrong*
Yeah you're wrong - I repeat I was an SNP voter but have changed my mind largely due to this debacle. I have been increasingly concerned about the way Scotland is becoming a 1 party state and this has solidified that. I'm also not voting SNP because of GRA, HCB and the apparent refusal to publish the OECD report. What happened to "judge me on education " ?[/quote]
Same here. Ex-member, the final straw for me was the video appealing to the TRAs to rejoin the party but total silence on the rape threats to Cherry.

Just checking in to see what happens with the VONC

Yes - 31, no 65, abstain 27
The motion to VONC Sturgeon has not passed.

That seems to be pretty much that then.

Labour abstained! Seems odd

Just seen this posted on twitter:

"The First Minister is found to have misled parliament, her response:

“If you want to remove me as First Minister, do it in an election."

Link to tweet

That right there is the arrogance that will screw Scotland over. She actually believes she's untouchable. FFS.

Happiness you are right I think - the system was designed to supposedly ensure discussion & consensus. And look at it now - SNP are high on their power & don't GAF cos they bucked that system.

I have no idea how we fix this. Genuinely have zero clue. Which is utterly depressing.

She pretty much IS untouchable.

@Blurberoo

Labour abstained! Seems odd

Doesn't surprise me tbh

Fraser Nelson writes that the FM has received as strong an exoneration as she could have hoped for. But, from the posts I have read, not in the view of most on this thread. Just so I don’t make any assumptions, is there anyone on this thread that wd have voted SNP prior to this matter? This is the first Scottish Parliament election where I will be voting SNP.

This post from tava63 is what I was responding to in my posts. Obviously I realise many people voted for the SNP in the past and wouldn't now for various reasons eg GRC etc!!

@Blurberoo

She pretty much IS untouchable.

I saw this on twitter & I think this sums up where we currently are:

Postcards of Wisdom - Death of a free society by a political party, in epitome: 'The People Are The Problem'.

She hasn’t though. She’s been found wanting by Parliament

@WaxOnFeckOff - well I'd agree but we don't know do we cos it's not been shared. I wonder why ?

[quote readsalotgirl63]@WaxOnFeckOff - well I'd agree but we don't know do we cos it's not been shared. I wonder why ? [/quote]
Yes, I think it was concluded that if it was any way positive or at least not negative, it would have been shared so it must be bad. I'm Wax by the way - having a wee temporary name change just for the hell of it.

I expect it will say:

Report on education

Signed the person who did it.

I guess Labour felt they had to abstain because they now have to be all things to all people to capitalise on the events and attract voters who have been turned off the other options. However attempting to be all things to all people hasn’t exactly worked for them up till now. I’ve no idea who to vote for.

On Labour abstention. The positioning makes sense to me. Little point in a VoNC since Parliament is being dissolved. You can't second guess the voters and if they say they have confidence in NS and the SNP then the Parliament will have to work with that.

(AS went with a plague on both the incompetent SG and the incompetent Opposition while calling for Unity).

@SempreSuiGeneris

On Labour abstention. The positioning makes sense to me. Little point in a VoNC since Parliament is being dissolved. You can't second guess the voters and if they say they have confidence in NS and the SNP then the Parliament will have to work with that.

(AS went with a plague on both the incompetent SG and the incompetent Opposition while calling for Unity).

Their positioning makes sense to me too. I think that if the Greens had been voting against her Labour might have done too, but in this instance they had made their intentions clear so it was guaranteed to fail.

On that basis Labour have sat on the fence

I would have voted SNP in previous elections if I had been living in Scotland. (Scot living in England, but always a Scot). This debacle would end that for me. The narrow result in these reports is irrelevant. Having paid attention, it is the corruption - the lack of separation from the Crown office most of all. The arrests and harassment of critical bloggers. The obfuscation and with-holding of information, right down to the heavily redacted Hamilton report. The lack of accountability. The hefty pay rises (pay offs?) for key players. It all stinks. Alongside it the policy capture. The chilling HC bill, the demonisation of feminists, the FWS result today in a case they should never have had to take. I don't think it is healthy for one party or leader to dominate for so long. We saw it with Thatcher and with Blair. It's why the US has a max 2 terms. The SNP has become toxic. I've no idea who I'd vote for but not the SNP and not any other party that doesn't know what a woman is. Those parties need a shake up. So who does that leave?

It's tough isn't it?

I currently have a Labour MSP, but standing down. The MP is SNP, so it's fairly marginal - assuming it stays that way then I will probably go Labour at constituency, Cons at list. Not happy with any of them - but as a marginal seat I think I probably prioritise not strengthening the SNP for this one.

No one will be shocked to see that Leslie Evans is staying.

Sessell it's the crown office stuff that really concerns me. I was trying to explain to my blasé teenager, not sure I managed.

Disappointed in labour and Lib Dems. I understand why they did it but I think it was weak leadership. I won’t be voting for either.

So what’s next? Is Alex Salmond still due to do another big grand reveal tomorrow? I’ve not heard anything else on that since Monday.

@ATieLikeRichardGere

No one will be shocked to see that Leslie Evans is staying.

Surprised, no. Concerned - absolutely.

How, after that mess, could you continue to have confidence in someone who presided over it?