State/Private + Higher English

[Navhos]

We are moving to Scotland from England in May and my daughter will go into S5. She has a place at a private school in Edinburgh but we are still deliberating over whether or not to send her to the catchment state school. We can afford the private school but it will be a definite stretch. The catchment school is one of the lowest attaining in the city - I think 23% achieve the 5 Cs according to the published tables. The reason I would still go for it is I firmly believe the quality of teaching is mixed in every school (state and private) and my daughter is very self motivated and independent so I believe she will do well in whatever school she's at. She has also never had any issues socially, so I don't see that being a problem in any school either. I also think the convenience of being able to walk to school can't be underestimated. However, I am still torn about it and just don't know how to make a decision - HELP!
The second issue is that the choices at the state school would mean she'd have to do Higher English and Higher Modern Studies (as well as the three Sciences), however at the private school she could do Geography and Psychology (in S5) as well as the the three Sciences, which is what she'd prefer to do.

However, the issue is, even if you are sure at 16 you want to go into Science (medicine), is it short sighted not to take English? And if she does take English, is the private school really worth it for the sake of her first choice of Geography over Modern Studies (which she is not familiar with but I'm sure would enjoy just as much). She already has level 9 for English Literature and Language at IGCSE (a level 7 is equivalent to an A) - is that enough? Or would she be mad not to do it at Higher?

I know medicine asks for Physics or Maths but taking maths would be complimentary for her science subjects and make the path through 5th year easier.

Although English isn't required for medicine its very useful to have to keep options open. I would recommend keeping it.

Modern studies is an interesting course - but as your DD is new to the Scottish system I'd be cautious about taking anything as a 'crash' higher when there is so much riding on getting As in 5th year.

Re the private school - do they have stats re how many they get into medicine each year?

In summary, 3 sciences plus maths & English is what I would recommend for any of my DC in a similar situation. Picking up one extra higher in 6th year alongside two AH.

I've seen Higher English as a requirement for all sorts of jobs in Scotland - it seems to be more of a general expectation here, not at all like the take it or leave it approach to A level English.

If your daughter is keen on studying medicine I’d suggest highers in English, maths and three other subjects ( possibly all sciences) is ‘the norm’.

It is very much the norm (and expected) here to take higher English for university. The skills will always stand her in good stead in future careers. The only kids I've known not take it recently were going into computing and physics and were not particularly good at English so likely to get a lower grade. Both took geography instead.

It's really difficult comparing school stats in Edinburgh as 25% secondary kids are in private schools so there's not the same social mix in state schools as you would have elsewhere. It's a real peculiarity to Edinburgh!
But something to consider re school choice is that there is a big push on widening access to university in Scotland at the moment. So if you are confident your daughter will get the grades wherever she goes she may actually have a better chance of getting into medicine from a school which doesn't traditionally send many to university rather than the private school.

I’d definitely encourage her to continue on with English; quite apart from anything else, she’ll be writing a huge number of essays and a dissertation as part of her degree , as well as literally hundreds of referrals and discharge letters if/when she qualifies as a medic, and believe me when I say language counts.

I’d also normally be all for state education, however the attainment level at that school does sound really very low, so you may want to consider the impact of the school environment itself - behaviour, facilities etc - as well as provision in case of any future lockdowns - as I know from my own experience that even the most self-motivated learner can be affected by being surrounded by pupils who just don’t want to learn.

Modern studies is definitely interesting, but if her interest lies with geography I’d be somewhat hesitant to do a crash higher when grades are as crucial as they are for medicine. I say that as someone who crashed both a higher and an advanced higher; I’m not sure it was the wisest decision!

I would also suggest taking Higher English. It's not necessarily required by many universities any more however several people I know who've changed career later in life have been caught out, sometimes years later, by not having Higher English.
My DC school were of the opinion that other essay based subjects such as History are equivalent but that's not necessarily the way it will be perceived later on

If she is keen to go into medicine then she will need to achieve 5As in her S5 Highers so if English is one of her weaker areas she may be better leaving it until S6. There is no requirement to have English to study medicine but I do think it shows that you are a more rounded candidate. Has she studied psychology before? If not, maybe not the best to do as a crash Higher.

Hmm i know a recent medicine grad who did not do Higher English but did do Higher History as it was recommended he have one essay based subject at Higher. I also know another boy who did not take Higher English and was shocked not to get an offer from his top (scottish uni choices) for a geography degree, he went to Durham in the end and had had a good time but had really wanted to go to Glasgow as that was the family tradition. Both private school pupils.

You have to be careful checking what subjects are available to study at Advanced Highers in some lower attainment schools, as they sometimes have a smaller range to chiise from due to lower demand in a less academic cohort (you should be fine in Edinburgh though).

Even though my children went to Scottish state schools and are now at University, I think in your shoes, I would take the private option as it will likely be easier on her especially in the current climate.
Coronavirus is likely to have much less of a negative impact on teaching in a private school. Anecdotally private schools are much more willing to do live 'real time' zoom lessons than state schools. You could ask them?
There are also many more variables in state schools - the availability of actual subjects just being one. Also peer group, teacher quality etc.
The Scottish system does not have language and literature as separate qualifications at Nat 5 and I doubt Higher English is a pre-requisite for Medicine but she could doubtless study it at the private school if she wanted to. Higher English covers language and literature.
In most subjects in Scotland, University offers are based on your Highers results from S5, although obviously for Medicine you also have to get good Advanced Highers in S6 as well.
Best wishes with your move.

If you want to go down the state school route you can always supplement by hiring tutors. Have a look at the widening access scheme for Universities. For example, Edinburgh Uni will accept kids for medicine from some state schools with substantially lower grades than those which would be expected from private schools. The information about the widening access schemes is on the Edinburgh Uni website.

Would you be prepared to name the school? I'm an English teacher at a state school in Edinburgh and can give you an opinion on whether I'd like my own kids to be taught Higher English there.

There’s widening access schemes at all the Scottish universities. But you need to check the requirements - it’s not just about the school where you sat your highers.

Every Scottish medical school has their entry requirements on their website. They are similar but not identical.

When you say 3 sciences @Navhos, so you mean H Physics, Chemistry and Biology in 5th year ? Because that’s not a requirement of any Scottish medical school. Most count Maths as a science.

Do either of her target schools do Human Biology instead of Biology?

Your DD needs to think carefully about what will give her the best chance of getting AAAAA. And also leave her with good choices for 6th year, as she will typically need BBB or BBC, with AH Chemistry or AH Biology and another AH.

So if she likes geography and is good at it, why drop it in favour of Modern Studies which she has never done and has no idea if she will like ? It might be a good one for her other AH.

As long as she does the compulsory subjects at 6th year, it doesn't matter what the other ones are. So she should chose ones she’s good at and enjoys.

Has she done Psychology at GCSE? If not, why does she want to crash it at Higher when she needs to concentrate on getting AAAAAA.

Yes, I was going to make the point about the widening access scheme, but it is not as simple as being done on schools and it is not a guarantee.

www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/access-edinburgh/widening-access-offers

23% is really quite low, and if I could afford -even at a stretch - private school, I would be paying that. My DD’s school is 72%. It is not just Highers, it is how much support they get with UCAS applications etc., which at her school has been excellent. It is a very academic school, which suits her.

@IM0GEN The state school is part of widening access. She doesn't want to do Maths, so yes Biology, Chemistry and Physics (most say a third Science or Maths). The state school options would force her to choose English, Modern Studies and Biology but at the private school she could do Psychology, Geography and Human Biology. She has not done GCSE Psychology but has read the course spec for Higher and doesn't look like it is especially difficult?

I guess I am assuming that because she is getting all nines in GCSE that she is well on track to get As in Higher?

@IM0GEN makes a good point about thinking about AH too. She will need these for medical school.
Look to see what AH the state school offers, some don't offer many. Most private schools in Edinburgh offer full compliment of AH with pretty much all kids taking them.

Are you prepared to name the state school? I think that makes a big difference. As a teacher of a non-core subject I'm always very wary of pupils "crashing" a Higher in S5 - I find they struggle with the step up from the level below and that combined with the entirely new content can be a real challenge. It's a risky strategy for someone who is totally new to our education system (the exam set up is very different) and needs 5As - even if they are bright.

@margotsdevil Leith Academy

I really think (from many years teaching experience and writing UCAS references) that ‘crashing’ a higher in S5 is a no go.... she must get straights As in one sitting - regardless of whether she’s at private or state school... and then 3 advanced Highers in S6. It’s asking a lot of your daughter to move schools and system and crash a subject and do work experience etc in prep for UCAS form- even if she is bright, sociable and motivated.

@FuckingHateRats Leith Academy

@mummywithtwokidsplusdog there is no option not to do a new subject at the state school. The private would be English over Psychology but English is her least favourite subject so she'd find it a chore.
@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby thank you!

OP I think your DD would find the English Higher quite a breeze if she got a 9 in both her Literature and Language GCSEs. It’s quite light on the Literature front ie. my DD is studying 1 novel, The Great Gatsby and 1 poet with reference to 6 short poems. The rest of the content is Reading for Understanding, Expression and Analysis (comprehension/practical criticism) and then you write 2 pieces of ‘portfolio’ writing over a period of time (not under exam conditions) that accounts for 30% of your final mark. I imagine that your DD would find that quite easy even if she didn’t enjoy it!

However I’ve just noted that your DD is moving up in May to go into S5. The exams are cancelled up here so the results will be based on teacher assessments. Have you asked how that’s going to work with your DD? Surely they won’t have time to assess your DD on this year’s SQA curriculum. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?!

@Retinal her current school assessments will be completed by the beginning of May so she will either go into S5 in the state school in June or in August in the private school.

If it was me I'd do private. Between moving at a key stage in her education and inevitable educational disruption hangover from COVID I'd guess private would give her the best chance. Only one or two years of tight finances would be worth it for me. Good luck with the move.

Leith Academy is in an Leaps category 2, so unless your DD fits into specific criteria she will not benefit from the widening access scheme offered by Edinburgh Uni.

@applesandpears33 it has plus flag status so as far as I am aware, all students have widening access. However, I am not concerned about my daughter's grades so that is not a consideration for us.