State/Private + Higher English

[Navhos]

We are moving to Scotland from England in May and my daughter will go into S5. She has a place at a private school in Edinburgh but we are still deliberating over whether or not to send her to the catchment state school. We can afford the private school but it will be a definite stretch. The catchment school is one of the lowest attaining in the city - I think 23% achieve the 5 Cs according to the published tables. The reason I would still go for it is I firmly believe the quality of teaching is mixed in every school (state and private) and my daughter is very self motivated and independent so I believe she will do well in whatever school she's at. She has also never had any issues socially, so I don't see that being a problem in any school either. I also think the convenience of being able to walk to school can't be underestimated. However, I am still torn about it and just don't know how to make a decision - HELP!
The second issue is that the choices at the state school would mean she'd have to do Higher English and Higher Modern Studies (as well as the three Sciences), however at the private school she could do Geography and Psychology (in S5) as well as the the three Sciences, which is what she'd prefer to do.

However, the issue is, even if you are sure at 16 you want to go into Science (medicine), is it short sighted not to take English? And if she does take English, is the private school really worth it for the sake of her first choice of Geography over Modern Studies (which she is not familiar with but I'm sure would enjoy just as much). She already has level 9 for English Literature and Language at IGCSE (a level 7 is equivalent to an A) - is that enough? Or would she be mad not to do it at Higher?

My DD did modern studies as a crash higher and got an A, so it can be done. She got straight As otherwise. So it is do-able.

My children are at/will go to Leith Academy.

I think your daughter will cope fine and her previous study at GCSE will have set her up very well. However I've tutored a few kids at LA because they felt they weren't getting what they needed from the dept.

I'll maybe pm you actually

If you can afford private, would it not be better to send your DD to a private school that does A levels so she can continue with the same education system as she is used to.

@LadyDanburysHat super keen to do Highers for the breadth.

[quote Navhos]@LadyDanburysHat super keen to do Highers for the breadth.[/quote]
Don't know where she was planning to apply for medicine but if not in Scotland (where Advanced Highers requirement is usually 3 x B after receiving an offer on the back of 5 x A at Higher), the English and Welsh Universities seem to want 3 x A at Advanced Higher from Scottish students and do not view Highers as sufficient.

Really? 3 Advanced Highers at A?! I’m not limiting my child to just studying in Scotland. I’m saying that they’ll have a much, much larger debt to clear if they choose to study in England or Wales and will definitely need to get a job while they study but I think the fact that they’ll need to bust a gut to get 3 As will be more of an incentive to stay in Scotland

Certainly in Scotland, 5 As would be sufficient. They didn't used to take into account advanced highers and we were told they're essentially the first year of university so I'm not sure why universities in England would require advanced highers only.

You definitely need AH in both Scotland and England, the number and grade varies for each medical school, some in England do ask for 3 AH at A. As far as I know all Scottish universities ask for at least 2 AH. This links shows the ask for each UK medical school:

www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/making-an-application/entry-requirements

My son is studying law at Oxford. His offer was 4As and a B at higher and AAB at advanced higher. He also had an admissions test and interview (like Medicine) which weeds out more candidates.

3As is a huge ask especially for arts or humanities where the marking is more subjective.

Wow, I stand corrected @celtiethree.

Yes you need AHs for medicine in Scotland. DDs friend has 5As and is holding one conditional offer on her 3AHs. She's also had interviews and there's another test (CAT??). She couldn't apply to one of the Scottish medical schools as that score wasn't high enough. It's very very competitive!

In your position would definitely opt for Private and A levels. That way not having Maths and English would not look odd and your DD gets a year to bed in before sitting exams.

Most with 5 A Highers in 5th year looking to do Medicine in Scotland will have both English and Maths. The route to avoid English which would raise least eyebrows would be Maths, Chemistry, Physics, Biology plus Geography. Would not recommend crash Modern Studies especially without English because most who crash in Scotland will have an underlying understanding of the Scottish political system and its institutions and will have learnt the approach to questions from History or Geography at Nat 5 / Higher or both. Psychology is notoriously difficult to crash in 5th year and I would worry about adapting to the different exam technique between England and Scotland, again especially without doing English.

It is actually fairly common for Scottish students applying to Medicine to have 6 Highers plus 3 AH conversions. This is because lots of State schools discourage 3 science Highers in S5 and so the 3rd is picked up in S6. This is just to give an indication of the standard of the competition.

I agree with Sempre. I have experience of both the Scottish and English systems and would probably rather look at A levels. It'll be an upheaval for your DD to move and to then be thrown into Highers could be quite stressful for her. I think it'd be easier for her to have two years to get settled before sitting the exams.

I think the only private schools that do A-levels are Merchiston and Loretto though which may be unsuitable? Very expensive and with boarding less easy to penetrate from a social point of view?

But then there is St George’s school in Edinburgh that goes from GCSE to Highers so that in itself is evidence that the two should feed into each other reasonably well?

We definitely won’t be going for A levels - I think three subjects at such a young age is too narrow.

And if we did do A Levels I would choose inter high (online school) and then supplement with as many social opportunities as possible to get that face to face contact with other kids. However, that would only considered as an option if schools look likely to continue to be shut.

I wouldn't worry too much about going from GCSEs to highers, and agree it's a benefit to have a broader education at that age. But a private school may have the resources to help the transition more. Is St George's the private school you have a place at? If so, it has a good reputation of being a very supportive school.

@Navhos mine are at st Georges and you're right there is a no problem going GCSE to highers. One third of the year get 5As at higher every year so that says it all. But I suppose the difference is that they all do it every year so the school are used to gearing everything towards that. I think posters are maybe meaning it's a big important year with a lot riding on it to change schools

Have a look at Uni entrance requirements. Almost all Ancient Scottish Uni courses require Maths for science and English for Arts if assessing Highers. Doing neither would seriously narrow the options if Medicine doesn't work out.
As others have pointed out English Unis mostly undervalue AHs and pretty much disregard Highers. My DH went to a mid range English Uni. Even he couldn't defend their admission criteria for Scottish students and so our DD didn't bother applying - it would only have been a back up but pretty pointless as was asking for more than Oxford.

And actually DD1 found English was the smallest step up from GCSE to higher, and it definitely isn't her strongest subject!

@Navhos

But then there is St George’s school in Edinburgh that goes from GCSE to Highers so that in itself is evidence that the two should feed into each other reasonably well?

We definitely won’t be going for A levels - I think three subjects at such a young age is too narrow.

But your 5 subjects are only for one year, whereas 3 A' levels is done over 2 years. If she wants to do medicine, you have to specialise in science subjects.

My DD did GCSEs last year at boarding school (or not as it turned out). She decided she wanted to be a day pupil at St. George’s this year so she has transitioned from GCSEs to Highers. She’s a humanities girl to be honest so she has dropped all the sciences including maths and picked up Modern Studies and RS having never done them before. She is on track for 5 x As for her Highers. The courses at Uni she is considering are all looking for 5A at Highers and 3A at advanced higher. She hasn’t struggled with the 2 subjects she hadn’t done before and they are in fact her favourites so she is planning on continuing the Modern Studies and RS to AH along with French. She has found Highers to be a lot more formulaic than GCSEs and getting used to the marking system has been a learning curve for her but once she got it sussed she was fine. I therefore would suggest if your DD is looking at 9s at GCSE she will be fine. On the question of state or private I’m not sure I qualify to advise since both my DC have been educated privately so, of course I think it is worthwhile going private and I know nothing about the state sector and what the experience would be like for your DD. However, my DDs experience of moving for lower sixth, making new friends, starting a new curriculum and dealing with a pandemic has been a little stressful but all said, she is really happy with the move to St. George’s. For what it’s worth, A levels are available at Fettes too, not just Merchiston & Loretto.

@motherstongue thank you for your reply and your reassurance that the 9s indicate something new wouldn’t too much of a hurdle - that’s what my instincts tell me too.

I’d also think carefully about doing Human Biology over Biology - certainly in ‘my day’ of applying for medicine - so about 15 years ago now, there was a preference for the latter, and human biology wasn’t as widely recognised - willing to be corrected if this has changed now.

Doesn't matter which Higher Biology you have if the final intention is to do AH Biology. There is no point doing both Highers as Unis discount and count as 1.