Salmond v Sturgeon Round 3 — Comment along with Sturgeon

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

Previous thread here.

@Motheroffourdragons

WaxOnFeckOff Sorry! Not meaning to be offensive to you

I find his ranting offensive to me

No, your comment about him not remembering he is Scottish (or whatever it was). It's offensive not just to me but to many people as you are implying that as Scots we shouldn't be complaining about the government. It smacks of Devi tweeting that anyone who doesn't support SNP/independence aren't proper scots (again I'm paraphrasing but it was along those lines)

I'm not being othered or told I'm not Scottish enough just because I don't support these things.

The bottom line for me is, if they were so certain of their case, so certain their decisions were correct & so certain that they lost on a mere 'technicality' with their process not being unlawful (despite the judge's comments), she'd have come armed to the teeth with evidence, diaries, records & slapped it all down in front of the committee
As she explained there are sound reasons why governments don't disclose their legal advice - hence the protracted wait for that. I don't think it was a case of her going and raking out her old notebooks.

Also, just on whether they should have pursued the case. She said that of all the legal cases she'd been involved in - that's when the Minimum Price law came in i think (yes i know, yawn) - there were none where the legal advise was 'it's a 100pc cert'. If there had been, she would be worried - that's the legal advisers job - to find potential issues. I don't think anyone would paint any of this as a great situation, but to say the released legal advice 'more or less proved Salmond was right'. Sorry, I can't see that at all

Here’s what I took from today.

Nicola Sturgeon would struggle to know or tell the truth if it hit her in the face ... which it has in the form of numerous legal documents but hey, she doesn’t ‘accept’ them.

For so long, the narrative of the SNP and Sturgeon is to play fast and loose with facts and figures.

Unchallenged by the Scottish media and an English media which is rarely briefed/ interested enough to pin them down, it looks like the SNP live in a parallel universe.

Disingenuous, patronising, entitled and completely out of touch with reality is how I would describe her.
Highly unprofessional.

Those ‘jokes’ at the expense of Salmond and Andrew Marr.
Not appropriate for the gravity of the situation.

Alex Salmond is odious and even if his motives are entirely narcissistic, at least this has shone a spotlight on the woeful inadequacies of the SNP and Scottish Govt.

If that’s an example of the brightest and best of Scottish politicians on the Committee today, then Scotland is fucked.

The cosy nature and interpersonal relationships of politicians, civil servants and judiciary is not compatible with transparent, functioning govt.

Devolution in its current form is not working.

The reputation of Scotland and Scots is being dragged through the mire.
For the first time in my life, I’m starting to feel embarrassed to be Scottish and I cannot begin to explain how that feels.

If the majority of Scots vote for the SNP in May, God help you.

@Nipoleonthenoncommital

It would have been quicker and clearer if Linda fabiani had managed the process better. Or managed it at all.

Indeed. Never mind, she's retiring shortly and will have some nice government investment money in her company to spend. Nothing to see here. Those nasty tories and their old boys club though eh?

I think Andrew Neil is one of those Unionists who fall in to the trap of despising the idea of independence and the SNP he practically froths at the mouth. He is too critical he forgets they are an elected party and Indy support is growing. There are too many Unionist voices coming across as sneering and very critical of Scotland and many of the electorate. This does come across as anti-Scottish, especially when it comes from those who live outwith Scotland.

I think you'll find Indy support is not growing and in fact has dropped 5% in the latest poll.

Who cares if he froths at the mouth or whatever? A poster has just said that he shouldn't be critical as he is Scottish. So it's the opposite of your claim.

We've been told by a government adviser that not voting for them is anti scottish.

@ShowmetheSnowdrops

Here’s what I took from today.

Nicola Sturgeon would struggle to know or tell the truth if it hit her in the face ... which it has in the form of numerous legal documents but hey, she doesn’t ‘accept’ them.

For so long, the narrative of the SNP and Sturgeon is to play fast and loose with facts and figures.

Unchallenged by the Scottish media and an English media which is rarely briefed/ interested enough to pin them down, it looks like the SNP live in a parallel universe.

Disingenuous, patronising, entitled and completely out of touch with reality is how I would describe her.
Highly unprofessional.

Those ‘jokes’ at the expense of Salmond and Andrew Marr.
Not appropriate for the gravity of the situation.

Alex Salmond is odious and even if his motives are entirely narcissistic, at least this has shone a spotlight on the woeful inadequacies of the SNP and Scottish Govt.

If that’s an example of the brightest and best of Scottish politicians on the Committee today, then Scotland is fucked.

The cosy nature and interpersonal relationships of politicians, civil servants and judiciary is not compatible with transparent, functioning govt.

Devolution in its current form is not working.

The reputation of Scotland and Scots is being dragged through the mire.
For the first time in my life, I’m starting to feel embarrassed to be Scottish and I cannot begin to explain how that feels.

If the majority of Scots vote for the SNP in May, God help you.

I agree that devolution isn't working, the form we have only exists because of the nature of the British political system. It's got little to do with the SNP.

But, over 21 years the Scottish institutions have suffered very few scandals. So not something to be embarrassed about. Plus, the whole Salmon affair could have been covered up? Isn't it right this all comes out?

@StatisticallyChallenged

I don't think ranting about the politics of your country makes you un-Scottish. But there's been a real tendency over recent years that criticising Scotland, the parliament, SNP, devolution etc are all anti scottish. Oh and voting Tory.

If that's the trend over the last few years then, as an independent country, that particular mindset continuing is a bit of a concern and slippery slope isn't it?

Not sure how you go about changing that, it becomes very ingrained.

I don't think that's fair. She has a right to question the premise of the questions asked. I think she made a good argument against many of them, but a lot of time was spent asking the same questions over and over. I think it would have been much quicker and clearer if the committee was made up of so many political opponents hoping to make mischief.

agreed. I don't mind them going over stuff again if it's revealing new evidence - that's their job! But the amount of time on, for example, the Aberdein exchange - when she wasn't even there! And the two letters 'corroborating' it, from people who weren't there either - was just ridiculous. What exactly was she supposed to say?

You could, word for word apply this to the current Tory government.

The scandals the current Tory government have been through, this year alone, is enough to make me want to vote for independence.

How people can vote Tory, I don't know.

Mind blowing.

Absolutely, allegations against Salmond should have been followed up but we are where we are because the processes, motivations and procedures haven’t been transparent.

But other people's vote is none of your business. That's democracy.

Not the intention, at all smile..
I just find it wearying that someone who is Scottish continually bashes Scotland for whatever the reason, you'd know if you followed him on twitter. He is relentless. But that's my opinion, you're free to disagree.

Again, I appreciate you saying it wasn't your intention but it's the mindset I disagree with. You think being critical of the government is anti scottish and I think that is offensive. I couldn't give a rat's arse about Andrew Neil. We can agree to disagree or not (i don't follow him) on whether we like him or what he says, but there is no agreeing to disagree that saying that if you are scottish you shouldn't be able to express issues with the SG as if that is somehow not allowed.

I think it would have been much quicker and clearer if the committee was made up of so many political opponents hoping to make mischief

So who do you think should have made up the committee?

@WaxOnFeckOff

I think you'll find Indy support is not growing and in fact has dropped 5% in the latest poll.

Who cares if he froths at the mouth or whatever? A poster has just said that he shouldn't be critical as he is Scottish. So it's the opposite of your claim.

We've been told by a government adviser that not voting for them is anti scottish.

Well that's one poll, I'll wait and see if it's a trend.

I don't care who's critical of Scotland, the Scottish gov or parliament. I'm not sure why you're holding me to someone else's post??

Im fascinated by the likes of Neil and other Unionists who are against independence but use such negative tactics to attack the idea. I'd really enjoy hearing more positive take on staying in the Unionist in the media but they don't seem keen to do that.

Im fascinated by the likes of Neil and other Unionists who are against independence but use such negative tactics to attack the idea. I'd really enjoy hearing more positive take on staying in the Unionist in the media but they don't seem keen to do that

Your OAP for one

They probably took a masterclass in whataboutery from the snp.

happy, I think a few on the old thread felt you weren't posting in good faith & your recent posts suggest to me that's continuing.

I'm discussing stuff from the inquiry - absolutely nothing else other than that so I don't understand why I'm not posting in 'good faith'.?
As I keep telling everyone i'm not in the SNP - but what if i had joined on the back of 'that performance'. That means not allowed to join in any discussion?
It doesn''t really say much for your strength of argument if you can't take an opposing view.
That was my genuine thoughts on the legal advise after trying to wade through it online last night and listening to the inquiry today - I'm not saying 'I'm right' - just how i see it.

Well that's one poll, I'll wait and see if it's a trend.

Yes but you stated it was increasing, so where is the basis for that statement?

And no, I was answering your post but I referenced a previous poster as well.

@WaxOnFeckOff

I think it would have been much quicker and clearer if the committee was made up of so many political opponents hoping to make mischief

So who do you think should have made up the committee?

I was really thinking in terms of it being in a court with lawyers and not political opponents with a long combative history. But this wasn't a trial.

I think the problem with selecting committee members is linked to the institutions failings in the devolution settlement. There should be more msps, far more committees and you would generate more experienced members. I think there were some experienced politicians in the committee but I think some lacked experience in this setting.

@WaxOnFeckOff

Well that's one poll, I'll wait and see if it's a trend.

Yes but you stated it was increasing, so where is the basis for that statement?

And no, I was answering your post but I referenced a previous poster as well.

The last year? Every poll has shown an increase or sustained support.