Scotsnet does not represent Scotland

[kamalasshaman]

At a time when polls are showing unprecedented support for independence and even John Curtice agrees the polls are clear, why is Scotsnet such a bastion of unionist opinions? Is it just due to the demographic of Mumsnet? Why has this site become such a right wing enclave?

I hope you do when the time comes @prettybird - even when we were on opposite sides I always enjoyed your posts

I don’t think thats right about Norway. There’s freedom of movement as they’re in the Schengen area, (which England obviously wouldn’t be) but customs controls, as only Sweden is in the EU.

I’m open to persuasion, as I would love to be in the EU, but there are never any actual answers.

It all seems a romantic ideal but with not enough detail for me.

I want to be able to whizz down to Manchester to fly offf on holiday, or pop to the Lake District, or on the train to London for the weekend, without a border at Gretna.

I want to know the currency I’m to be paid in. How will insurance and pensions work? If I fall ill in England will I have to pay for treatment? Will flights be extortionate as there will be a tiny captive market?

@prettybird

ssd and StarryEyeSurprise - that's kind of you.

Once there is an official campaign, I might gird my loins again . But I've never yet been deleted and if I'd responded to some posts, I might have been at risk of that . So I made a decision just to not bother engaging

Instead, I just read them and laugh/vent to dh

What a good attitude to have. I do try to do the same and then get sucked in!!

The political threads on Scotsnet don't I (desperately hope and believe) represent Scotsnet never mind Scotland.

I look at the light thread to see the version of posters that I believe I'd meet if I bumped into them in real life.

But I am a peace loving wimp and come here for an escape from stresses. Just as other people will throw themselves into a feisty exchange of views for their escape.

There is space for us all.

I don't have the energy, knowledge, courage or just the capacity to argue, name call, swear at strangers online for the sole reason of having different political views.

I'd like to say more on the tiers threads because feeling the impact of restrictions is not, for me anyway, akin to subscribing to any political ideology but it moves swiftly back to politics. But that's what the posters there want so I lurk and enjoy the wit which is there and scroll past the more robust debate.

Waves to Prettybird.

If we're going to compare the border between Scotland in the EU and England outside the EU, then shouldn't we be looking at, for example, the border between Estonia and Russia?

I’m not here for a scrap, I just was hoping for some answers

"With Russia not being a part of the European Union or the Schengen Area, the progress of cross-border cooperation between the countries is measured.

Moreover, modifications to the border have disrupted existing lines of communication. The numerous markers [sentiers] that previously crossed the border have been replaced by several crossing points, such as the “Friendship Bridge” between Narva and Ivangorod. The rarity of these crossing points provokes the congestion of transport infrastructure. To remedy this, an electronic reservation system, which allocates times for crossing the border, was established in 2011."

Waves back to Lidlfix

PS I visualise you like my mum, who was an inspirational English teacher and like you did her degree and went in to teaching as a mature student.

You'll be amused that ds now tells us that he notices when people (friends or in TV shoes like The West Wing) make grammar mistakes (his particular bugbear is "Me and [people]"). He is truly his granny's grandson, even though he was only 6 when she had her accident

Wise move @prettybird. I think I'm on a final warning and I rely on mn a lot so I've learned to haud ma wheesht

Scotland is a wealthy country, see attached. These are all successful, independent countries. We have a similar population and GDP to Denmark, Finland etc. They don't have 1 in 5 in poverty, nuclear weapons costing billions of pounds and a requirement that a significant amount is spent in defence.

Prettybird the force is strong with that one. We lost DH's mum when DD2 was a similar age so DDs 3 & 4's memories are constructed round various pics and family folklore. But there are times when I just see her in them and it's lovely.

Anyway I shall end my (rude I know and apologise) interruption and hopefully see you all in non political threads

And yes I know it references Wikipedia but if you look on there, there's other sources linked.

It certainly doesn't represent the view of anyone I know in my part of Scotland and that spans pretty much every demographic . Even those who don't actively support the SNP don't have the hate I see on here and I barely know a soul who doesn't want independence now. No one I know think Nicola is doing a bad job during this pandemic and I've never heard any of the hate that I read about her on here in real life

Borders with non European or Schemgen countries? Anyone?

Me neither midnight.

Also just wanted to say to the people that want all the answers now- all the specifics aren't there from the SG as they aren't campaigning for independence due to the pandemic. When the time comes and campaigning starts, there will be.

To be fair, @midnightstar66 the most vitriol I’ve read about her comes from the other wing of the party. Allegations of control, dishonesty, and allegations of super injunctions in English courts to keep it all quiet.

But NS doesn’t equate to independence. That would be a separate issue in a referendum. Hence my need to know the big things

Yeah right, like there were last time. And SO much more difficult this time round.

They are campaigning for the election to be a mandate for a referendum though

@WouldBeGood

Borders with non European or Schemgen countries? Anyone?

What's your explicit worry and I'll try answer.

From the EU on the subject of borders, and particularly external borders. The Scotland / England border would be an external border if Scotland joined the EU and/or Shengen after independence:

"Solidarity and cooperation
All EU States have to make investments to protect their external borders in the interest of the entire Schengen Area. For some States, notably those situated at the external frontiers of the Union, these investments can be very high due to particular migratory pressures. The EU Internal Security Fund establishes solidarity between the Schengen States by supporting those countries with a heavy financial burden in implementing the common standards on external border controls.

Operational cooperation between EU States is coordinated by the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders ("FRONTEX"). The major task of the Frontex Agency is to coordinate joint operations to assist EU States in managing migratory flows at their external borders. The joint operations coordinated by the Frontex Agency at sea are governed by Regulation 656/2014, which establishes rules on interception, rescue and disembarkation to be applied in the context of such joint operations. The Agency also manages a pool of border guards called European Border Guard Teams for deployment as guest officers during Frontex joint operations and pilot projects, and during Rapid interventions in States facing urgent and exceptional pressures at their external borders.

The EU established a new information sharing and cooperation mechanism called EUROSUR (European Border Surveillance System). This mechanism provides Schengen countries with a common operational and technical framework, which assists them in countering cross-border crime, preventing unauthorized border crossings and diminishing the tragic death tolls of migrants at sea."

My concern is a border, fences, passports and all with England, which I think would be inevitable if we were an independent country in the EU because of the freedom of movement, and in particular because of the desire of migrants to get to England.

Yeah, there's not going to be high migratory pressure / cross border crime is there..

It'll likely be free travel of people ( if England agrees) and goods - well it'll be a bonus for Scotland as it's much easier to trade via a land border than through multiple ports.

@WouldBeGood

My concern is a border, fences, passports and all with England, which I think would be inevitable if we were an independent country in the EU because of the freedom of movement, and in particular because of the desire of migrants to get to England.

Sorry, migrants from where will be trying to get to England?

It won’t be though, because there is high pressure for migrants to get to England, which they don’t want.