Scotsnet does not represent Scotland

[kamalasshaman]

At a time when polls are showing unprecedented support for independence and even John Curtice agrees the polls are clear, why is Scotsnet such a bastion of unionist opinions? Is it just due to the demographic of Mumsnet? Why has this site become such a right wing enclave?

I give up op.

Have a nice life.

[quote kamalasshaman]@annabelindajane I'm glad you did such stunning research. Please send it to John Curtice and he will sort out the polling to allow for that.[/quote]
Genuinely wanted to know if she understood how it all works - she didn’t .

There are a number of people on Scotsnet who are very vocal about hating how they have to wear a mask begrudgingly

I hate masks due to ptsd and I haven't noticed a horde of antimaskers. The scotsnet mask threads I've participated in have been mostly very pro mask. The opposing perspective was mostly given by those with health conditions which make masks problematic not people opposed to them on ideological grounds.

I'm gender critical because I have ptsd from being violently raped, have worked with some of Scotland's most vulnerable women (including prisoners) and have also had to spend time with sex offenders. I'm not right wing in the slightest.

I tend not to post mostly because I know how pointless arguing on the Internet is. Personally having been a civil servant in my misspent youth, I think all Governments need held to account all of the time even if we support them. There is always room for improvement.

Your complaint was that it wasn't representative, people have said they don't want to join in threads with people who have different views. No-one said you had to start a thread but that if people feel underrepresented, it's not up to others to start threads they might enjoy more.

I agree with previous poster in that I am done. The usual statements made with no evidence. Most folk on here might not be happy with the tack being taken but we still comply.

WHO also advocated against lock downs.

[quote kamalasshaman]@annabelindajane I'm glad you did such stunning research. Please send it to John Curtice and he will sort out the polling to allow for that.[/quote]
Precisely - which is why polls don’t always give the true picture .

Right. I’ve said why I won’t vote SNP.

Before considering voting for independence Id like proper answers to the following questions, as I’m concerned it will just turn into a Brexit style shambles, where people vote for an idea without any practicalities considered.

1. Will there be a hard border with England?
2. Will there be a hard border with Northern Ireland?
3. What currency will be use snd how will it be run and backed up?
4. Will we be a republic or a monarchy?
5. Will the SNP automatically disband as they will have achieved their goal, so be unnecessary?
6. Will we apply to join the EU?
7. Will we get into the EU?
8. What will become of international and long haul travel as for most places you need to go via England?
9. Will income tax and other taxes rise to pay for this?

10. Will we have armed services? 11. Will we have consulates and embassies?

Those are just some of the things I think about.

I also think any referendum should require a super majority to guard against a fifty fiftyish split with the associated bitterness.

@anon444877

I don't understand the people who want Indy and then to vote Labour especially - I hope Labour will win the next GE election, think they're well placed to and the whole credo of Labour politics rests on transfers from richer to poorer people from richer areas to poorer areas. London is one of the richest areas in Europe.

Maybe scotsnet is against Indy because there are more numerate people on here who understand fiscal transfers?

But yeah, years of Toryism obviously.

Agreed.

Such basic and essential questions, Would, but we don't have the answers. Incredible, considering years of encouraging Scots to want and vote for independence, with over 4 years since the Brexit decision. They shouldn't even be considering a referendum when they haven't thought through these questions.

@slitheringsnakes @WouldBeGood
Could you please answer the following questions before you decide that we can't have a referendum
1 Do you think it's fair that no matter what the majority vote for in Scotland, we will never get a UK government that reflects this? Even if the whole of Scotland vote Labour it has no influence on a UK Labour government.
2 How will you ensure that decisions of the devolved Scottish government aren't overruled by Westminster?
3 Do you have an open and transparent separate breakdown of all Scottish exports and GDP figures, taking into account the value of all goods exported through Dover which at present are counted in the overall UK tariffs?
4 Do you have an answer to the blatant inequality of Northern Ireland remaining in the EU trade area and Scotland being excluded?
5 Do you have a solution for immigration to Scotland to ensure we have the skilled workforce we require, now that we are no longer in the EU?

See, this is why it’s hopeless.

I never said no referendum. I said I wanted the answers to these questions to help me decide how to vote.

Please could you answer?

I don't have any figures to hand, but a quick response on a couple of those:

1. I sympathise massively with those who are stuck with conservative governments while not voting conservative. I'm one of those people - have never voted conservative. There are however other parts of the country that don't vote conservative (or, when Labour were in power, didn't vote Labour) and are governed by a party they don't like. Unlike those other parts of the country, Scotland does at least have devolution, so can control a lot of day to day things including education, housing and health. There is also no reason why the whole of Scotland voting Labour would not affect an election result. If fewer Scots had voted Conservative 2 elections ago, it would have kept the conservatives out of power.
2. Northern Ireland is treated differently in respect of Brexit because of its history of sectarian division and terrorism, the Good Friday agreement, its having a border with the EU, etc. Scotland is not in a comparable position. Personally, I would of course love Scotland to have a closer relationship with the EU than it now does. It's not about fairness, it's about expediency and negotiations with the EU. If I thought that the conservative party in Westminster was about fairness, I'd be voting for them. Their habit of treating much of the population unfairly is not restricted to Scotland.
3. As far as immigration goes: a) improve the education system so that all children, including the bright ones, achieve their full potential. Encourage high achieving young people to stay in Scotland. Value them. They're vital to Scotland's future. b) Be nice to the people we have from the EU who are still here (which to be fair NS has tried to be). c) Make Scotland a welcoming place where the system works as far as it is practicable for the Scottish government to make it work. So that you encourage working people from the rest of the UK to come to Scotland. The same with the immigrants who are starting to come from Hong Kong, who I see as a great resource.

So how about your responses to our questions now, Kama?

Sorry, I don't have any figures to hand

To answer the OP. Voting no does not make you right wing.

The demographic who voted no tended to be educated to a higher level than those who voted yes according to research after the vote iirc. Mumsnetters tend to be educated to a higher level than the general population, so yes probably due to the demographic of Mumsnet.

Well, @kamalasshaman, there’s your answer.

I won’t vote for something without knowing what it is.

@slitheringsnakes actually all of your questions are already pretty much answerable- yes we will apply to join the Eu and be able to get in, according to most recent communications. Once we are in we should have an EU border relationship with NI and of course the English border would be up to England to negotiate but since it would be an EU border, similar to France.
Monarchy? We already are one as the queen and her heirs are crowned in a separate Scottish coronation in St Giles. I presume we will keep the Scottish regiments of the army but that's not an area of expertise so I can't claim to know. We already have separate consulates eg Chinese so that's likely to expand into embassies. Most long haul flights will go from Amsterdam Schipol in future now that Heathrow expansion has been curtailed. We can either use the Euro like Ireland or continue to use the pound as an interim until we get our own pound, see Scottish Investment Bank. We can inherit some government debt from the UK which will allow us to borrow ( don't ask , it's not like your bank account ). If the SNP don't disband then I imagine it will eventually split into different parties but who can predict politics?
Whether income taxes will raise will depend on the policies the government pursue. That's up to a democratic process- does Scotland want to have continued austerity or infrastructure investment, do we want a universal basic income and high tax levels? There are many choices and opportunities.

As to point three in Kamala post. If you go to the factsheet about export statistics produced by the Scottish government itself it states 'Exports Statistics Scotland measures the destination of scottish exports regardless of the port it leaves the UK. The myth that scottish exports are undercounted never seems to die.

@Graffitiqueen interesting use of figures.The yes vote significantly younger and city based but equal high at 45% across all other social strata.
The no vote was higher in the highest earning groups and older people.
I can read two things into this-
unionism is generally affiliated with a conservative vote and these voters are generally high earners
High earners have a vested interest in the status quo.

commonweal.scot/New%20Common%20Weal/cache/file/29F23FA1-D870-C2ED-29ED89A296818776.pdf

@timetobackout destination is not the same as value

I tend to stay away from scotsnet largely because of the anti Scottish sentiment /cringe from people who allegedly live here.

I’m not an SNP voter and am critical of a lot of things they do but I don’t recognise the description of Scotland or the Scottish government I read about here. The hatred of Nicola Sturgeon in particular turns my stomach, often it’s not critical of policies just pure vitriol or childish put downs aimed at her. It makes me sad to see how backward people can be. Then again Scotland still allows orange walks so can’t expect erudite responses from everyone.

Tell me this are high earners likely to be better educated than low earners?

Most of that is quite vague, and aspirational rather than a plan.
And some is wrong: the Scottish Investment Bank is an arm of Scottish Enterprise to invest in business, not a national bank to control a currency.

England will, of course, not be an EU border. And there will be big concern about freedom of movement and goods. So will there be a border with checkpoints snd passport control, and customs duties?

I personally would prefer a republic.

I am concerned that taxes will rise to pay for the huge huge amount of regulations snd organisation necessary for all this too, rather than to pay for utopia.

If anyone does know the answers to my questions I’m genuinely interested.

I told DP that I was going to ensure I had all the information before deciding. He’s an independence supporter, but of the “wahey, Scotland” view, snd freely admits he’s not aware enough of the issues.

1. Will there be a hard border with England? No
2. Will there be a hard border with Northern Ireland? No
3. What currency will be use and how will it be run and backed up? Pound initially then own currency. Backed in Scotland by national bank ( already being set up).
4. Will we be a republic or a monarchy? Yes to monarchy
5. Will the SNP automatically disband as they will have achieved their goal, so be unnecessary? No
6. Will we apply to join the EU? Yes
7. Will we get into the EU? Yes
8. What will become of international and long haul travel as for most places you need to go via England? Really? Ok, you can so this in any country- fly to another via a stop off at an airport in another country.
9. Will income tax and other taxes rise to pay for this? For what? Having full powers in Holyrood? No, unlikely. Spending from taxes will change.

10. Will we have armed services? Yes- small as per our population aka Norway 11. Will we have consulates and embassies? Yes