Scotsnet does not represent Scotland

[kamalasshaman]

At a time when polls are showing unprecedented support for independence and even John Curtice agrees the polls are clear, why is Scotsnet such a bastion of unionist opinions? Is it just due to the demographic of Mumsnet? Why has this site become such a right wing enclave?

I'm not Scottish but my DH is, and we live in Scotland. We both feel that regarding Scottish independence, unless you are in favour of it, then you don't talk about it, and keep your views to yourself. So perhaps this gives unionists a place to say what they can't in their 'real life'.

A few decades ago, the SNP were where the Greens were in recent memory - a single issue fringe party. (And that's why they were the Tartan Tories btw, because it got them a seat at the table.) The fact that they are now a mainstream party of power is actually phenomenal, when you think about it. What's important about that of course is that they aren't a party looking to vote themselves out of existence - ie, they now look to have a life after independence has been achieved.

To do that, they've been both lucky - that ScotLab has completely imploded - and clever - that they've made policy to occupy the centre-left which is where most Scots naturally sit.

Anyway, just musing. To return to the point: I don't think MN is representative of anywhere - it's just a forum that a group of people use. Expecting it to 'represent' is a bit of a reach.

I am absolutely a left-wing Unionist. I believe at its core that nationalism of any form is wrong. I care as much for bairns in Cardiff as I do for bairns in Cambuslang. I believe we live in a tiny island and we should live together on that island. I also don't want to abandon my English cousins to yet more Tory rule.

All that, of course, depends on having effective opposition. The death of the Labour party is heart breaking to me and leaves me politically homeless.

Also being GC isn't right wing

@WaxOnFeckOff - I don’t think people treat men in the same way though. They don’t abuse them or call them names or comment their appearance to the same degree.

I don’t find the SNP “sinister” at all nor do I see any evidence for this. I think there is an angry minority of anti SNP people in Scotland who hate them no matter what. Most are conservative supporters but not all. But the majority of people in Scotland approve of the SNP and about half vote for them at every election. Scotsnet seems to have a disproportionate number of the former group.

I’m far from right wing.

I won’t vote for the SNP for their misogyny and woke crap, see the Forensic Services Bill and hounding of GC women; their oppressive and controlling policies, see the Hate Crimes Bill; their leaders’ dishonesty, see the current scandal; their terrible record on health, see the Covid deaths and drug deaths; the massive attainment gap increasing in education because of their handling of it over the past many years.

Plus they continually ignore all this and witter endlessly about independence.

If you voice dissent, as with the Op, you are lambasted as a yoon, or the ultimate insult, an English loving Tory. Or unpatriotic. It’s really really boring. And lots of people are scared to say in public they don’t want them because of the abuse.

I also find it sinister that they have a slick online college, for members only, to evangelise and convert

@ginghamstarfish - I haven’t found that with unionists at all. But it should be about equal numbers of unionists and nationalists on scotsnet and it’s not. That’s not to say we need quotas or anything but I think it’s good to explore why that might be. One reason I think is the vitriol directed to independence supporters.

The Party College

@WouldBeGood - who has said any of those things you claim? Who has called you unpatriotic? What’s a yoon? A unionist? You just said you were a unionist. It’s not an insult you know.

@WouldBeGood - it’s about learning about independence and how to persuade others. Unionist parties could learn from that.

@WaxOnFeckOff I am not stirring the pot in mentioning covid deniers. There are a number of people on Scotsnet who are very vocal about hating how they have to wear a mask begrudgingly and we have had numerous links in the threads to Ivor Cummins on YouTube and the Barrington declaration etc etc. Schools must go back now. The useless amount of home learning vs how terrible it is to have to do home learning ( same pps) The economy is dying, vulnerable people should hide and let the normal healthy people get on with it etc etc.
And these same people generally do say they hate the Scottish Government. When you take their views together they look pretty right wing.

Well I'm glad people can say they wonder about the use of masks (fair point scientifically) and that maybe lockdown of population Is worse than the problem it's aiming to solve. (Only time will tell on that. Obesity and inactivity rates scare me in public health : number one cause of mortality is still going to be cardiovascular disease worldwide this year.)

Just as I'm ok with people wanting to lobby for independence even though I personally think it would end up with more poverty which I think is an evil.

I don't like the style of internet where you can only say things approved by party officials.

Covid denial is the concept that it's all a plot and there is no virus. Like flat earthers it's a crazy minority.

Lonny
“I don't think MN is representative of anywhere - it's just a forum that a group of people use. Expecting it to 'represent' is a bit of a reach.”

The above sums up my thoughts. I never come on Scotsnet or Mumsnet with an expectation that it represents anything or anyone because ALL life is here.

Are there sometimes huge differences of opinion? Does it sometimes get heated? Yes.

Are you saying you’re not allowed to say what you want to say on here Kamala? Because you just have. And you can continue to do that - and you’ll get some that agree with you and others that don’t.

None of those things are denying covid or teacher bashing.

If you want threads for pro independence stuff then have them instead of just more moaning that you are being shut down. People are posting their views and anti independence folk get pushback too, but we've persisted and found like minded souls which is difficult outside of here where the indy supporters tend to be more rabid.

The vast majority of people are now completely split and neither side wants to listen to the other so as I said before, it's not up to the people you are protesting about to create a space for you, make your own threads.

I did the political compass thing and came out closest to being a green but I won't be voting for them.

Debate is healthy to democracy but all too often there is name calling from both sides.

Those who dare to criticise the government are called anti Scottish, Tory, and on one thread recently a poster was even told to go back to England!

Now I know that the name calling goes the other way too and all of which stops people debating issues that are directly impacting them.

Many snp posters on here seem to take personal offence when the government is criticised and this shouldn’t be! Even the bloody tories criticise Boris/the government, it’s a normal thing for supporters to do!

@LetItGoGo well I hope you don't feel obliged to accept the standards of medical care approved by party officials. This is what drives me crazy, conflating medical or any other professional advice with independence support. You do know that professional people just do their job and advise the policy decisions? Fortunately in Scotland the government is actually listening.
Most professional people who are in public service CANNOT argue their case and are generally barred from political discussion or even standing for office. These are sackable offences ( to do with councils and health boards, not the government). GPS who aren't employed by health boards and private practice lawyers are the only professionals free to speak.
It's disgusting to see comments like this they are so ignorant. The pandemic should not be politicised.

I understand why people are bringing up the Covid deniers and Us for Them - personally I don't think these people naturally fit into the right/left wing or indeed indy/unionist buckets that you would necessarily expect.

(And I know this is anecdata but... ) I know a good few Us for Them-ers for example, and they are to a woman what MN would describe as lentil weavery in normal life. I think the Covid thing cuts across all political classes.

*I'm using lentil weavery as a shorthand there for slightly crunchy boho left-leaning middle-class Edinburgh indy supporters, sorry that wasn't really clear.

Waxed on is correct . SNP are the ones in charge so need to be challenged simple as that .
They are not doing a good job in Scotland - there’s only a small population and they get plenty of financial help from Westminster . I asked a 26 year old professional who supports snp and independence if she understood the deficit . She hadn’t a clue - just wants independence so how can you challenge that mind set .? SNP are great at communicating but not at running the country .

I didn’t say I was a unionist anywhere there @CayrolBaaaskin?

I said why I wouldn’t vote SNP.

And you also know perfectly well that “yoon” is pejorative

@LetItGoGo you may think that covid denial is being a flat earther and lunatic fringe, but questioning masks is on the same spectrum. It's a selfish idea that you are more special than all the specialists.
The thing is this is a thread essentially about why there isn't fair representation of all views on Scotsnet.
And yet I'm being told to get a better naice SNP thread where no one will pile in to complain.

And just as one example, Devi Sridhar, SG adviser, called unionists “anti-patriotic”.

I see none of my other points on actual politics are worthy of discussion: that’s the problem in Scotland

@annabelindajane I'm glad you did such stunning research. Please send it to John Curtice and he will sort out the polling to allow for that.

I don't know any UsForThem to s it just a Facebook thing? I'm not on that!