Scotsnet does not represent Scotland

[kamalasshaman]

At a time when polls are showing unprecedented support for independence and even John Curtice agrees the polls are clear, why is Scotsnet such a bastion of unionist opinions? Is it just due to the demographic of Mumsnet? Why has this site become such a right wing enclave?

The Hate Crime Bill is very sinister stuff. The SNP is dragging us into very dangerous territory.
They press ahead with the extreme Woke ideology, even though the ordinary citizens of Scotland are not that way inclined. They are dominated by the Trans / Woke power group.
My MP spends his time on Twitter slagging off anyone who doesn't go along with transactivism. Really slagging off. No sense of representing his constituents and working for them. I wouldn't ask for his help if my house was on fire.

I find it scary that SNP / independence supporters are all about emotion. It feels worryingly similar to the support for Brexit. They really don't care about facts.

I don't understand the people who want Indy and then to vote Labour especially - I hope Labour will win the next GE election, think they're well placed to and the whole credo of Labour politics rests on transfers from richer to poorer people from richer areas to poorer areas. London is one of the richest areas in Europe.

Maybe scotsnet is against Indy because there are more numerate people on here who understand fiscal transfers?

But yeah, years of Toryism obviously.

@Nyx

I find posting anything pro Scottish indy has ended up with me being told I've got a chip on my shoulder / am anti-English (I'm not!) / I'm ridiculous / don't know what I'm talking about / etc etc, that I've posted far less over the years. The sneering gets me down. I'm so bored of hearing how the SNP used to be called tartan Tories.

I don't see Scotsnet posters as right wing particularly but there are some very unionist posters who are all over anything that might be construed as positive for independence. Which sadly means they simply can't back the SNP no matter what they do. It means Scotsnet has a distinct anti-Scottish tone sometimes. Someone posts asking for a good area to move to in Scotland and there are many posts giving it "oh god, why would you want to move here, the SNP have ruined education/the NHS" etc, it breaks my heart.

The unionists may not be natural Conservative voters but because "Scottish" Labour have imploded, they sometimes have no choice but to vote Tory to try and beat the SNP. Although how anyone who isn't naturally a conservative voter could bring themselves to vote for the Tories, i can't tell you. Particularly with Boris, and Brexit. If you vote for Tories when you're not a Tory, you deserve Brexit and whatever else they dish up. In my opinion.

Thank the lord, unionists are no longer the majority. It's a shame that means Scotland is no longer allowed democracy - there is only one reason why a vote on independence will no longer be allowed and we all know what that is. It wouldn't matter if 2014 was one year or twenty years ago. "Once in a generation" is a pathetic argument against it, but it's all they've got.

Somebody on Twitter said today: "Scots are now being told by the Westminster government and by representatives of political parties polling around 20% that there is simply no way to democratically bring about a second independence referendum.

Pause, go back, and read that again."

It's true. And this is after our democratically elected Scottish government won an election partly the back of the promise that if Scotland was taken out of the EU against our will, we would have another referendum. How is this in any way fair or democratic?

Exactly. It's so tiresome. I obviously read a lot of comments and just write one when I have something to add/ useful information. Because I wrote that there's huge demand up here for properties at the moment and that's been forecast to continue in an indy Scotland (replying to a post) that was jumped on as - I'm lying. I thought mumsnet was a place to help others and it makes 0 difference to me if the poster moves to Edinburgh or not so why I would lie? I'm not an SNP member, on some crusade, which I think is what people think when anything positive is written re indy which says more about them than it does about me. I think some come across as very bitter people tbh. I took a long break but it's good to see what's going on. For me, it's become like UfT on here with a lot of false info and people winding themselves up over it. I've seen I do not consent , the dentist is a right c*, we need schools open to everyone NOW etc etc. No, Scotsnet does not represent Scotland.

There are two separate political concepts that posters including the OP seem to struggle with:

1. the constitutional issue of Union
2. the socio-economic question of where you sit on the political spectrum from left to right

So left-wing Unionist, right-wing Indy supporter all possible and every variation of commitment entirely likely.

When anyone conflates the two, I write them off intellectually. Sorry not Sorry.

@slitheringsnakes

I find it scary that SNP / independence supporters are all about emotion. It feels worryingly similar to the support for Brexit. They really don't care about facts.

Such an ignorant comment. We are professionals in my family- lawyers, bankers, teachers, health board managers, property directors. We all support an independent Scotland. Not because of emotions. BECAUSE of the financial implications. I saw a thread re someone wanting to move to Scotland and Scottish passports came up. I have never thought of having a Scottish passport and I don't really care. Being independent is normal. Completely normal. Now I'm not going to get into another argument on here re Oh you'll be Greece without the sun, you'll be £2k short per person etc as well I've got better things to do with my day.

@MintChocAddict

Well I'm pretty left wing but won't support independence while we have essentially a one party state. Any democracy needs effective opposition and quite honestly the Scottish Parliament doesn't have that. The nodding that goes on in unison to everything that NS says is ridiculous and the fact that party members can't openly criticise or disagree doesn't really fill me with any confidence. I think the current SNP administration has done well in some areas and fairly badly in others (and it hasn't always been Westminsters fault!) I wouldn't be totally opposed to independence if I was confident that we would be going into it with a number of strong Scottish parties. A one party independent state gives me the shivers.

But it won't be a one party state they say. All the wonderful, talented, capable politicians are hiding themselves until post indy when they will step forward and create 'new parties' which will have all the good things about a party you currently like and none of the bad things.

StarryEyeSurprise, please can you explain the financial benefits of independence?

I think that we as an electorate should challenge our elected government and I have been concerned that for quite some time no dissent is permissible in the SNP which is not a good thing.

Their party members should be critical and demand better from them as if we ever do go independent this should be the blue print of how we expect our politicians to behave.

I have been astounded at the lack of criticism and let’s face it this is not a good thing as power corrupts.

I don’t think it’s helpful to call no supporters tories and yoons as these voices should be listened to - did we learn nothing from Brexit.

Yesterday Murrell was reported to the crown office for perjury that is something we should all be concerned with. There are serious allegations surrounding NS misleading parliament which one poster on a previous thread didn’t think was an issue. With these kinds of attitudes it is no wonder that some of us have serious concerns over independence. It is ok to be a loyal supporter and still criticise your party and you should as this might actually help your long term aim as the current approach is alienating.

I wouldn’t say Scotsnet is very welcoming of those that don’t share the same anti SNP views. There doesn’t seem to be any room whatsoever for a different opinion. On another thread a poster actually said to me “this is what the people of Scotland think” with no consideration of the fact that I may also be Scottish... and have a different view.

And then there is the constant tacit implication that anyone with a different opinion is an idiot or doesn’t understand.

The “wee Nippy” and “Krankie” stuff is so unnecessary. It is possible to articulate an opinion without name calling.

So lazy. If you're anti-SNP then you're a "Toarie". Or according to Devi "Zero Covid" Sridhar, if you don't support independence you're anti scottish.

It's an easy way to both discredit someone and annoy them, calling them rightwing but as a PP said you can't take an isolated opinion and use it as a marker for right wing views. Nor can you assume people are right wing because of their income level or job or interests.
I think whoever said people are voting Tory because Scottish Labour are in pieces is mistaken, there are a surprising number of people who have lent they vote to the SNP because they broadly align with their day to day policies (or don't hate them) but aren't actually that bothered about independence (not at any price anyway). The SNP vote isn't as solid and uniform in its views as its diehard supporters would like to think.
The same accusations are made of the gender critical with absolutely no evidence at all bar the fact that some right wing evangelicals in the US don't like Trans people (or any any LGBT for that matter). It's showing massive confirmation bias and a lack of ability to form an argument beyond name calling.
I've never slagged off NS by the way, I tend to think she has a lot of good qualities and I don't expect politicians to never put a foot wrong.
I have voted Green, Lib Dem and SNP but NEVER Tory.

It's very tiresome to be constantly asked to explain the financial benefits of independence. Anyone getting into that argument is never going to get anywhere as the figures are incredibly misleading because we aren't in charge of tax revenues etc.
My answer to the people who pick this topic or insultingly say oh all SNP supporters are financially illiterate is
A do you have any idea who the posters are on this forum ?
B I think the phrase "no taxation without representation" was coined a while ago.

To paraphrase: is a false statement to say that Scotsnet does not represent Scitland as the Scottish electorate is more varied and complicated than some people aknowledge.
I don't think it's acceptable to try and bring NS down based on her appearance though, that's totally unacceptable.

I also have no idea why anyone tolerates some of the COVID denying and teacher bashing views on Scotsnet. I am sure that the culprits will now pile on, but they really would be more at home on Us for Them which has clear links to the Tory party. If that's not right wing I don't know what is. The same posters have a vitriolic hatred of the SNP.

Agree 100% that it’s not as simple that anti-SNP or anti independence automatically means Tory or that either of the above is a sign of anti Scottishness.

But supporting SNP and/or independence isn’t well received on Scotsnet.

I think people have differing ideas about what a forum is for, some users think it's just for an online version of the kind of real life chats you'd have with aquaintances where it would be rude to comment on people's political views and others think its more like a debate where any statement is fair game for being challenged.
I personally think its the latter but preferably without being too rude!

Equally lazy to brand anyone who isn't 100% behind the way things are being handled by the Scot gov re covid as a covid denier or anti teacher.

Most of Ilya are bright enough to realise there's a spectrum of opinion and it's not black and white. Entirely possible to believe that covid very much does exist yet still criticise the strict lockdown, slow vaccine roll out, patronising adverts.

@kamalasshaman

I also have no idea why anyone tolerates some of the COVID denying and teacher bashing views on Scotsnet. I am sure that the culprits will now pile on, but they really would be more at home on Us for Them which has clear links to the Tory party. If that's not right wing I don't know what is. The same posters have a vitriolic hatred of the SNP.

Examples? I've not seen any covid denying or teacher bashing on scotsnet so clearly I've missed something.

Or are you just stirring the pot?

It's okay to generally align yourself to the policies of one party over another, it's another thing to think that they can do no wrong.

@EachDubh

Many support independence but do not support the SNP as is now. Not everyone will agree with the direction Scotland should go in and that is good, it means politicians and parties are challenged and can't just ride rough shod over the general population. I want a Scotland made up of many parties and beliefs, I want people to challenge things not just nod and agree.

I agree absolutely.

My worry is that the SNP have such a cult following that even the current Salmond / Sturgeon mess - which whiffs of corruption - will be quietly overlooked. Just being 'better than Westmonster' is a low bar and Scotland deserves better than that.

It's like brexit or a general election really. Each side thinks the other is ill informed at best, and nasty at worst. Each side thinks the other side is vitriolic and goes straight to insults instead of engaged debate. Each side thinks the other side 'believes what they've been told'.

During the indy campaign, we had a 'non shouty' thread that was for people to genuinely debate without attacking. Inevitably some people popped on to call their political opponents idiots but mostly it was pretty good. I ended up using that thread only as the others descended into food fights after a page or two.

Maybe we could try a Scotsnet non shouty indy chat? If we agree to terms?

I think COVID denying is a bit strong @kamalasshaman. As I agree that I’ve not clearly seen that.

What I see is clear frustration with lockdown and that’s being directed at NS. As I said before the part I objected to was the name calling and the implication that anyone that supports the SG or thinks they are doing a good job is an idiot with no place here.

And on a very personal level I found the comments about NS having no idea about the challenges of home schooling because she doesn’t have children extremely upsetting. Nobody know the individual circumstances of that.

Covid denial. Hmm. Please point it out on threads if you believe you see it

The most active threads all seem to be about coronavirus and they're (or were last time I looked, I gave up contributing then reading) generally anti-SNP voices.

I'd agree with this. If being anti SNP doesn't make you a Tory, being pro independence doesn't make you a rabid SNP supporter either. I agree wholeheartedly with independence but if its achieved I doubt I'd vote for the SNP.

Saying that I think that overall scot gov is doing a pretty good job with the pandemic. They are def not beyond criticism but I feel they've handled it far better than in England or NI (where I'm from originally).

Have a look at politicalcompass.org if you are interested in where political parties actually sit with their policies; on the left-wing/right-wing and authoritarian/libertarian spectrum.

You can take the test and see where you lie too.