How is the jobs market in Edinburgh (in the long term)

[hopingforonlychild]

Hi everyone! DH and I are contemplating Edinburgh as an option to the usual London- Home Counties move. We own a flat in north london zone 3 which we bought in 2019- unfortunately the larger flats and houses in our area are extortionate and the fact we bought in recent years means that it would be difficult to capitalize on equity gains to move up the ladder.

We are attracted to edinburgh as we are fans of city life, and the many large beautiful tenement flats (and cheaper house prices). We also work in finance and Edinburgh is the second biggest finance hub in the UK. We could also afford private school in Edinburgh which is far more expensive in London.

My biggest worry about moving is that even if we find jobs there and manage to sell up in london and buy something larger, we may have to move back to London at some stage for career progress. We are still young (28 and 30) and have many years of working life. I don't have many friends in Edinburgh but the ones who did started out in good jobs but then moved to bigger cities after a few years.

Given that the main reason we want to move to edinburgh is to buy property, I don't really want to stay there for a few years and then have to move back because DH wants a better job (he is ambitious and has many years of working life ahead of him). We can't afford to keep the London flat as a BTL so we would have to start all over again (and then possibly sell the Edinburgh flat). We don't really want to be long distance commuters either, one reason why we want to move to edinburgh is because there is conceivably a chance we could get jobs in the city and work there.

Would be glad to know everyone's thoughts.

Would places like Milton Keynes and Reading suit us better than Edinburgh (even if Edinburgh is 100000 times prettier). some big employers there and still commutable to London if DH gets a better job (awful commute and high fares but doable).

With regards to 'city life' what do you actually include in this?
I find Edinburgh -beyond its old town beauty- very bland in its offering outside of festival season. (And of course- there is the unbearable business that is festival season!)

For foodies, theatre, music and shopping I'd actually rate Glasgow higher than Edinburgh.

If it's all to do with work- you never mentioned what line of business you are in.

@TrollTheRespawnJeremy DH and I work in finance- DH works in a major investment bank and i work for a hedge fund admin company. Both analyst/associate level.

City life-good public transport, restaurants, shopping. We are a 20 minute tube ride from central london and can pretty much buy almost everything within a 20 minute walk from our home in London. Dh and i both grew up in very big cities- my city has 5 million people and DH is a native londoner so would find Home counties living a shock to the system- neither of us drive. We have considered outer london suburbs but tbh we feel it kinda defeats the purpose- very long commute on the noisy tube and high london house prices.

If we are in edinburgh, we hope to be able to live in a 3 bed tenement flat in the city for £500k, our london flat is currently valued for £425k and we will overpay and save some more. and as the city is so compact, we would be able to get everywhere quickly.

I have been to glasgow and loved it, but i thought there were more financial sector jobs in edinburgh?

Glasgow financial services jobs are pretty limited compared to Edinburgh, but we have no idea how the covid caused working from home will affect how things will work in the future and if where you live will make any difference.

That said Edinburgh is a nicer place to be imo and you can get a train to Glasgow if you fancy a change if scenery, easier than commuting daily from there to Edinburgh.

A lot of the larger company offices are no longer in the city centre though and you'll also have to consider if Scotland became independent how that would affect your job long term. For example my nephew was working in FS in London and had to relocate to the Netherlands due to brexit.

@WaxOnFeckOff my current company is not planning on allowing us to wfh once the pandemic is over, which is fine as I am not planning to move in the short term (realistically, I want to work on overpaying the mortgage and building equity so that I have a bigger budget for the next property while not overstretching). I don't think DH's bank is going to do mass wfh even if they haven't said anything, they have a long term lease on a gorgeous building in central london which they are not giving up. And even if a lot of companies do wfh, I would always want to be near a good jobs base- so i can choose whether I want to wfh or not. Thats why a lot of the London Leavers are going for the home counties- where it is possible to still commute to London (but honestly they aren't really saving much money as the property market is so hot, and that savings could well be eroded if at some point in the next 30-40 years, they have to commute to London again).

during the last referendum, a lot of banks said they would leave scotland for london if independence happpened. the same happened for brexit but actually in my experience, while some jobs have left (like your nephew), most jobs haven't left. Of course it is still early days and more capital and jobs could flow out of London, but London still has an advantage as it is English speaking and not many staff can just up and go to live in Frankfurt/Paris due to language barrier/kids education. My Dh is a fluent german speaker but he can't move to frankfurt because of me- we tried living in germany before and it really wasn't my cup of tea.

If you are ambitious, I would ward off moving to Edinburgh in the long term if you both work in finance. I think London or surrounding areas may be better suited to your circumstances.

From your post the only motivation to move seems to be able to afford a bigger place. You are young and mobile and even if Germany is not your cup of tea there are other places to go abroad.

I love Edinburgh and am very happy here, but it is considerably smaller than London. It has a lot of events, but I think you will definitely notice that there is less to do. We have little kids so going out is low on our priority list. It's very green though and pollution is much lower. It's also pretty and surrounded by nice countryside. Most people I know have cars since you will need one if you want to go on a day out to the countriside/beach. But the bus and tram network for the city is pretty comprehensive.

I would not move here though until the issues around independence are a bit clearer. Although Brexit is undoubtedly disruptive, independence would be much more so. Given the extra uncertainty of what happens post Covid I would probably not move to Edinburgh at the moment.

@blowinahoolie Thank you! I want my own career and to always work, but DH is definitely ambitious. I don't want to constrain his ambitions just because I want a bigger flat when he doesn't really see the need to (he is only considering the idea as it is wired in the DNA of all native londoners to consider other alternatives even if they like london).

There is some work, not a huge amount. From your perspective, the main thing I would say is that, there’s not as much scope for specialisation
or advancement.

My DH does some work aligned to the finance sector. For this they need an in-house technical person. They always have to hire someone from London, either who’s prepared to relocate or to work remotely, because people with the right skill set just don’t exist locally. When they move on it’s always back to London.

@Callisto1 Thank you! Is independence such a possibility? I have been keeping up with the news, but i don't think boris is going to grant a referendum?

the catalonian thirst for independence is much stronger (and they actually have a bloody history of oppression to back it up) but they aren't even independent yet. Granted the spanish government is far more authoritarian, but conversely that actually drives the independence movement more.

Moving to Edinburgh would be more a step backwards rather than forwards. I mean it in the kindest way OP

@EnPoinsettia yes same with my friends! also moved onto Singapore, HK etc.

This might explain why the house prices are a lot lower. My area in London is very convenient for commuting to the City as its on the same line as Moorgate, Bank and London Bridge. Sign why are so many good job opportunities centered around 1 city?

@blowinahoolie Thank you for telling me this.

I am just quite confused. There was another thread on Mumsnet where the poster asked whether she should move to London commuter towns from edinburgh cos she didn't feel fettes and the other private schools in edinburgh were as good as those in the london commuter towns and everyone told her that it would be a step backwards.

i just don't really like the london commuter towns and the ones that are nice are even more expensive than london for some weird reason (when you take season ticket fares into account). They are all very suburban though and you still need to go into london for museums and restaurants (which people with kids also do to some extent).

Well having been stung by Brexit I will never again discount the possibility of more independence! The SNP is very determined and I think quite popular. We will see more in May I guess. But if they do well I think we will get a referendum for sure. I would not move here unless it was hugely beneficial until things are clearer.

You have more choices than the commuter towns and Edinburgh though surely if you are ambitious and willing to move anyway.

Honestly, as many WILLIES (work in London, live in Edinburgh) will attest to, realistically the big jobs in Edinburgh require regular travel to london. So much so they coined a term for it

I’d also point out that the nice flats you see on right move at o/o £500k if in city centre particularly new town will be going for £550k+

[quote hopingforonlychild]@Callisto1 Thank you! Is independence such a possibility? I have been keeping up with the news, but i don't think boris is going to grant a referendum?

the catalonian thirst for independence is much stronger (and they actually have a bloody history of oppression to back it up) but they aren't even independent yet. Granted the spanish government is far more authoritarian, but conversely that actually drives the independence movement more.[/quote]
If you plan to move to Scotland I wouldn’t go about asserting that the Scots have never bloodily oppressed.

You might also find it interesting to look into both current and historical links between Scotland and Catalonia. They view themselves as literally brothers in arms.

@Callisto1 well there are 4 major financial hubs in the world- New York, Hong Kong, Singapore and London. Also Tokyo and Shanghai-
I don't like the chinese government and I would not want to live in Japan either.

Left singapore at 19 as I found the mindset too provincial (would not mind moving back for a great job but it has to be seriously good as the work hours are insane, my cousins are working till 3 am daily, i grew up eating dinner at 10 pm as that was when my mum finished work and trying to stay up till midnight as a 3 year old cos I wanted to wait up for my mum. My mum worked in the financial sector in singapore).

. Hong kong is too cramped and the house prices are insane.

would not mind New york but it is more expensive than london.

we considered vancouver when we were newly married but it doesn't really have a financial sector. Anyway its more expensive than london.

I don't really like Australia.

@EnPoinsettia Sorry i meant that in the last 100 years. Older people in Catalonia have memories of being kicked in the street for speaking Catalonian. I don't think Scots are as angry but I don't live there, I suppose

I think you'll find fewer people actually living in the large tenement flats in Edinburgh - many of them are student, corporate or second homes and of course air B and B. People with children tend to live in the suburbs or townhouses. Edinburgh is made up of a collection of villages which can be quite "small town " in nature. If you're keen to live in the New or Old towns remember they can truly be hell at festival or Christmas. A car might be more essential than you think if you ever want to travel beyond the centre. Having said all that I would love a flat in India Street or Melville Terrace, just for the winter and keep my "summer home" in the West Highlands!!

And many Scots fought in the International Brigades during the Spanish Civil War, my grandfather included.

I have many friends in Catalonia and have spent a considerable amount of time there. I have been shown the sites of battles, mass graves and safe houses. And I have spent similar time in Euskadi.

I am quite well aware of the situation in both Catalonia and Scotland, thank you very much.

The Catalans I know find fellowship, commonality and empathy in their relationship with Scotland, not competitors in the olympics of oppression.

It is extremely offensive that you are trying to play top trumps about the struggles of both nations.

And I’m not even a nationalist!

So if you do move North, I suspect you soon be well acquainted with the Scottish phrase “dinnae let the door hit yer arse on the way out”.

@EnPoinsettia ok. I acknowledge and appreciate your feelings and memories of past oppression.

I am from an ex British colony but i don't really dwell on things in the past. Thats just me. I appreciate Scots are probably different.

I've lived in the suffocating home counties, London, Edinburgh and traveled to various places for work and think Edinburgh is quite small town - it's safe, great things for children and has amenities but it's not much at all like London in feeling and you can be guaranteed to bump into people you or your dc know at nearly any event.

The properties are beautiful, Scotland is gorgeous. Personally I wouldn't move out of rUK though until the Indy question is once again settled unless I was committed to an independent Scotland and had looked into the likely economic consequences of it - not just job relocation.

Everyone mentions scottish independence and trying to gauge how I would be affected by it if I move there. Isn't that a definite no then? As no one knows what would actually happen?

I was an ardent Remainer in 2016, dishing out leaflets and I thought I was pretty pessimistic. But even I did not anticipate the level of damage that Brexit would do and will continue to do to our economy.
Also if scotland gets independence, they would probably be negotiating with Boris Johnson (unless he is replaced by Keir) and that is bound to be a disaster.