How is the jobs market in Edinburgh (in the long term)

[hopingforonlychild]

Hi everyone! DH and I are contemplating Edinburgh as an option to the usual London- Home Counties move. We own a flat in north london zone 3 which we bought in 2019- unfortunately the larger flats and houses in our area are extortionate and the fact we bought in recent years means that it would be difficult to capitalize on equity gains to move up the ladder.

We are attracted to edinburgh as we are fans of city life, and the many large beautiful tenement flats (and cheaper house prices). We also work in finance and Edinburgh is the second biggest finance hub in the UK. We could also afford private school in Edinburgh which is far more expensive in London.

My biggest worry about moving is that even if we find jobs there and manage to sell up in london and buy something larger, we may have to move back to London at some stage for career progress. We are still young (28 and 30) and have many years of working life. I don't have many friends in Edinburgh but the ones who did started out in good jobs but then moved to bigger cities after a few years.

Given that the main reason we want to move to edinburgh is to buy property, I don't really want to stay there for a few years and then have to move back because DH wants a better job (he is ambitious and has many years of working life ahead of him). We can't afford to keep the London flat as a BTL so we would have to start all over again (and then possibly sell the Edinburgh flat). We don't really want to be long distance commuters either, one reason why we want to move to edinburgh is because there is conceivably a chance we could get jobs in the city and work there.

Would be glad to know everyone's thoughts.

1. learn to drive

2. learn about Scottish politics- Independence is inevitable, it’s only a matter of time.

There are lots of investment jobs in Glasgow as they are continually moving departments from America and London up to Glasgow due to the cheaper but equally skilled workforce. There are however more finance related jobs overall in Edinburgh as Edinburgh is the second largest financial hub outside London.
An independent Scotland will more than likely join the EU so I wouldn't worry too much about that - we'd be similar to Dublin which has a healthy financial sector.
I don't think it would be a step back. I know several people who have left London for Scotland and said they have improved their quality of life no end (all working in investment banks).

And BJ is a disaster, yes! But remember he doesn't want a deal as his donors have made millions shorting related positions and the EU don't need a deal with the UK.

If another macro shock worries you, I'd definitely think long and hard. I don't fancy being cut off from political union with London, awful as Boris is.

Reading your posts I'm not sure Edinburgh is big enough for you. The reason I think a lot of people move here is because it's better for family life than some of the bigger cities. I don't get the sense this is what you're after so I would probably stick with London. If you're in finance your salaries are bound to go up and eventually you should be able to afford something bigger!

DH works as a fund manager in Edinburgh, in a superb, interesting, very well paid job. We chose to live in a town outside Edinburgh and commute because the flats/upper villa type life didn't appeal to us. So a very, very good job with a superb work/life balance is possible.

One thing I'd say is that they are (at least mainly) investment companies in Edinburgh, not investment banks or hedge funds. Not sure of that makes a difference? I don't work in the same field so not totally sure.

Also as a PP mentioned, whatever asking price you see on an Edinburgh property, add 20% on top to get the actual price they are looking for! Offers over £500k means they want somewhere close to £600k for it...

I am a bit worried about independence and how it will affect DHs job but trying not to think too much about it as it is very stressful.

@FollowThatStarTonight does your DH have to travel to london much at all, other than standard business travel?

£600k for a nice large city flat can be ok as you would pay far more in a good area in London. So as long as the salary in edinburgh is not very low, it can be doable esp for a second stepper. In London & the HC, what you earn often does not correspond with your ability to buy property as there are a lot of people whose buying power have nothing to do with their jobs- there is bank of mom and dad (esp inheritance from parents who bought houses when london was less sought after than the home counties in the 80s), foreign investors etc. Would you say that is the same in Edinburgh- that the 600k flat is usually only accessible to non locals?

It's a bit of a mix I think. There is definitely a core of wealthy individuals in Edinburgh who are from wealthy families, have professional jobs, and pass wealth down through the family so that their children are in expensive paid-for flats in their 20s. I've met many, many people like that (I'm a lawyer). It's not a complete monopoly though - especially if you work your way up the ladder. Family homes are scarce but it sounds like that's not what you want anyway. We had wanted a large 4 bed+ home/garden, not terraced or villa, quiet street, parking, good schools and at the time we couldn't find what we wanted under about 750k in areas we liked. So we came out of the city and never looked back. It's also easier to get to the airport from here.

DH travelled a bit to London pre-covid, once a month maybe, and some of the team he manages are based there. He also travels to the States and the Far East where some of his major funds' clients are. It's not too much though. I know some others who spend 4 days a week in London and DH and I had always hoped to avoid that.

Sorry that should say £650k not £750k!

We could afford more now but we'd never move back - prefer to commute.

Is there anything in Switzerland that might appeal? Friends of DHs went to Zurich and we visited and loved it. It's one of the few places abroad I could picture living!

@FollowThatStarTonight i have never been to zurich but maybe would visit after the pandemic.

Isn't it known to be very expensive (though I suppose salaries are also commensurate). Also moving abroad is harder for us as a couple, as we have different citizenships and I don't want to renounce my citizenship in favour of british citizenship (my home country would require me to do so and I want to keep that citizenship as a backup). Permanent residency in the uk automatically lapses after you have been outside the UK for a long period of time. I could return but would have to apply all over again for another visa, and frankly having done all that in my early 20s, am quite over it. But i can stay in the uk without British citizenship and can even vote as a Commonwealth citizen, have access to the NHS and also the 30 hours free childcare (as long as my DH applies for it on my behalf).

I imagine if scotland becomes independent, there would be provisions for that.

People (us included) love edinburgh living because it’s very family friendly and quite European feeling (city centre professional families living in flats, walk to work etc) but I’m not sure that’s what you’re seeking. People in Edinburgh in my experience having also lived in London tend to value work life balance more.

@museumum I do love the idea of apartment living and being able to walk to work, but I also have to be realistic about jobs. I mean, despite brexit, i feel that london would still have a large pool of jobs esp relative to other parts of the uk. I mean, its inevitable there would be future recessions and if jobs become scarce, would i then be forced to relocate. Not that london wouldn't be affected but there are still likely to be more jobs there.

I'm surprised OP as I've often seen you on other threads saying you would never leave London. What's your main motivation? Is it just a bigger property or do you actually want to leave London. Some of my neighbours have gone back to Edinburgh this wk (zone 3), friend did it last yr. They wanted a different pace of life.

I do wonder if Covid, remote working will lead to more jobs in other cities as it's stupid so much is concentrated here.

@bombymobey I said i didn't want to leave london for a home counties town as I have never found one I liked (and that made financial sense and was workable). Leaving london for another city would be fine, but in the past, i guess i always assumed the jobs were all in london (perhaps not correctly). Yes main motivation is bigger property, I quite like flats but want a 3 bed.

Honestly I don't know about the different pace in life. Surely that is more related to job than to where you live. my MIL lives in London but works freelance, I would say that her job is less stressful than mine or DH as she takes on the work that she feels comfortable with. If she wants to go on holiday, she can and she doesn't need to request for annual leave every time she needs a break. Of course, she could never afford to pay a big london mortgage if she was my age. However, i think most people my age across the country have to try their best to earn the maximum they can anyway, even for those living in cheaper areas as the cost of living is quite high relative to earnings. So from my perspective, I don't think living in a cheaper area would mean that i have to work less, but I would be able to afford a bigger place for my efforts.

Just as an example I moved from London to edinburgh in the same industry, job one rung up. In London I and friends and colleagues would work till 7/7:30 standard and go out fir a drink after work straight from work. In edinburgh my friends / colleagues would expect me to go home at 6ish, change and eat and meet up back in town at 8 for a drink.
Just one example of the generally easier pace.

Apologies for misunderstanding. I'm similar in that I would prefer a move to say Bristol as opposed to the home counties or outer zones. I like all the convenience on my doorstep.

I think it depends on how ambitious you both are. I know lots of people who have left London to work in other places. They have dropped salaries but their money has gone much further so quality of life has improved. Many of them are less stressed as less stressful roles, reduced commuting, less busyness etc.
The trouble with London is many older people have tons of equity & some younger people have access to help. A good salary isn't really enough these days unfortunately. Most of the people I know who left were sick of working really hard but not having a house they envisaged &/or just didn't want so much income servicing a mortgage because they wanted private schools or more holidays etc.

What's attracting you to our capital city?

The cheaper housing

Anything else

Hmm.

I think if you want a stable steady finance job it's fine. But if you want to grow/ lots of promotion opportunities there is always the risk that you will have to go back South.

Many many people don't relocate when they do this and the London based worker just weekly commutes (did you see then comments about WILLIEs on the other thread).

And yes, Edinburgh suffers the same issues as London with some of the housing being inaccessible without Bank of M&D. I see friends from school who grew up in the same neighbourhood as me living in places as adults that are much less desirable suburbs. My friends who live in the more expensive places (Grange, Newington, Blackhall) tend to have relocated back from the South East, really well paying jobs or have inherited money (or some combination of all 3).

We've just sold our family house and became acutely aware during the process that there was only a limited pool of people who could afford to buy it. In London terms it was super cheap (cheaper than my one bed zone 1 flat), but for Edinburgh where average salaries are lower it was out of reach for most families with young children.

I think you can have an amazing quality of life as a family in Edinburgh (and I know loads of people who live centrally in flats/ double uppers) but there is a tradeoff.

I personally came back South for career opportunities (not in finance) but I think if I'd settled down and had kids I would still be there.

@Bloodypunkrockers it's a beautiful city with culture and the highest percentage of restaurants per capita in the uk. Also has a liberal synagogue and a decent Chinese community and a few Asian supermarkets (Manchester has this too but Edinburgh is better for finance jobs).

Honestly a lot of the home counties towns are not multicultural and I don't like that. DH is a city person too and doesn't like anything outside zone 3 london but he does like Edinburgh, Glasgow.

Op I honestly think you'd find Edinburgh dull after the buzz of London. Yes, it's the biggest financial hub outside of London but it's still limited.
Have you thought about Jersey? Huge financial industry there and it does have a buzz about it.

A lot of that culture and many of the restaurants will be sustained by the rather large flow of tourism that Edinburgh had before Covid. It's more noticeable than in London because it's a much smaller city.

Hopefully in the near future tourism will return, but if not I can imagine that a lot of places will go bust. Some local people hate the tourism and the festivals and I might find it annoying too if I lived more centrally. The centre is crazy during the Fringe or around Hogmanay. And there seems to be a bit of an issue with Airbnb in the centre. Again probably worse in a smaller city when it's concentrated to a particular part.

If you don’t want to live next to rowdy students give the tenements a miss. You can get a nice house in a nice area for £800k +. The finance jobs are good but a number of the big banks would ship operations if Scotland got independence - they have to for regulatory reasons - and Scotland would have way too much debt to rejoin the EU so yes, if you both work in finance independence is a big worry.

And the person that said Edinburgh would be like Dublin, Dublin has a big finance hub as it has v low corporation tax rates. The EU does not let new members have such low corporation tax levels.

@bombymobey thanks. I can see that. I am actually not as ambitious as my DH. I don't think my DH would be happy with a pay cut actually. He doesn't mind the long hours he works, he knows london property is very expensive, but often just thinks the house prices would crash at some stage (and we bought at the wrong time). Or he thinks we are just not working hard enough. Thats another thread!

I must admit, when i was saving up to buy, i guess i just never realized how many londoners had willing and able parents to help them. My dad could definitely afford to buy a house for me in london and he would never, and I wouldn't expect it either. I only realized this very recently when people i knew who had modest salaries suddenly ended with london homes and i realized, with that amount of equity, they could definitely afford a £1 million house even if their salaries never went up.

Which is why I am considering Edinburgh. I really looked into the home counties and visited many towns in 2019, even tried out the commute by getting hotel rooms. But even if wfh was permanent, I honestly don't think i would be happy there. Maybe if it had very quick links to London like St Albans but that is more expensive than london!