How is the jobs market in Edinburgh (in the long term)

[hopingforonlychild]

Hi everyone! DH and I are contemplating Edinburgh as an option to the usual London- Home Counties move. We own a flat in north london zone 3 which we bought in 2019- unfortunately the larger flats and houses in our area are extortionate and the fact we bought in recent years means that it would be difficult to capitalize on equity gains to move up the ladder.

We are attracted to edinburgh as we are fans of city life, and the many large beautiful tenement flats (and cheaper house prices). We also work in finance and Edinburgh is the second biggest finance hub in the UK. We could also afford private school in Edinburgh which is far more expensive in London.

My biggest worry about moving is that even if we find jobs there and manage to sell up in london and buy something larger, we may have to move back to London at some stage for career progress. We are still young (28 and 30) and have many years of working life. I don't have many friends in Edinburgh but the ones who did started out in good jobs but then moved to bigger cities after a few years.

Given that the main reason we want to move to edinburgh is to buy property, I don't really want to stay there for a few years and then have to move back because DH wants a better job (he is ambitious and has many years of working life ahead of him). We can't afford to keep the London flat as a BTL so we would have to start all over again (and then possibly sell the Edinburgh flat). We don't really want to be long distance commuters either, one reason why we want to move to edinburgh is because there is conceivably a chance we could get jobs in the city and work there.

Would be glad to know everyone's thoughts.

@ASmallMovie I can certainly wait 5 years to see what happens.

How can there be independence if BJ doesn't grant a second referendum?

The govt will be forced into a referendum eventually.

The Scots are pretty cross about the way they have been treated over Brexit and covid.

I was "Better together" in 2014. Ironically because I'm a passionate believer in the EU. Now I would campaign for independence. The current Tory clowns have shown that they really really don't respect the union.

Better to live in a economic disaster of our own making than one forced onto my by the fucking Tory heartlands.

If Scotland gets independence I would consider relocating home (I currently work in London but a similar role exists in Edinburgh).

@opinionatedfreak I completely understand where the Scots are coming from. The tories do not care about scotland. Or any region except for London/SE because thats where the money is.

I do think scotland has potential, they are the richest region outside of London/SE.However, they would always be treated as second class citizens by the Tories. Maybe this was a price worth paying when the UK was in the EU. But now that the UK has placed itself on a downwards trajectory... the fate of nations can change. In 1965, Singapore (a country of 1 million people at that time) had a lower average income than Jamaica and the country it was forced to break away from, Malaysia had natural resources and was very much richer. Today, Singapore is the world's third richest country in terms of gdp per capita and Malaysia is a Second World Country.

Of course the same could be true of independent Scotland, it could be much poorer not just in the interim transition period but in the longer term too with financial firms moving out and oil resources depleted.

I have nothing positive to say about Boris, but if you can wait 5 years that's a fortunate position.

There is this assumption that all scots are huge fans of the EU and also want independence.

Not so!!!

We had our “once in a generation” referendum and last time I looked, even allowing for Scotland’s teen pregnancy rate, a generation was at least 25 years

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/16/unicef-feed-hungry-children-uk-first-time-history

Honestly feel like there's something very wrong in the UK at the moment. The poverty is a political choice as the Government choose not to tax the companies making millions and wealthy individuals yet families are literally starved through the provision of no money (sanctioned) if an appointment is missed. It's going to get much worse next year as food prices skyrocket.

In regards to Scotland, smaller countries tend to be wealthier. Also, Scotland has huge natural resources and higher GDP per capita than many European countries including Italy.

As the UK spends billions on nuclear weapons yet children struggle to eat, the mismanagement of wealth by the UK Government surely means that Scotland would be better off with full control of spending.

@StarryEyeSurprise

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/16/unicef-feed-hungry-children-uk-first-time-history

Honestly feel like there's something very wrong in the UK at the moment. The poverty is a political choice as the Government choose not to tax the companies making millions and wealthy individuals yet families are literally starved through the provision of no money (sanctioned) if an appointment is missed. It's going to get much worse next year as food prices skyrocket.

In regards to Scotland, smaller countries tend to be wealthier. Also, Scotland has huge natural resources and higher GDP per capita than many European countries including Italy.

As the UK spends billions on nuclear weapons yet children struggle to eat, the mismanagement of wealth by the UK Government surely means that Scotland would be better off with full control of spending.

Fully agree. I hope that an independent Scotland will cause a change down South too. It's not right that silver spooned millionaires are resigning so many to a life of misery whilst dishing out £18 billon to friends and family. Utterly shameful.

The Scottish government already has control of things to alleviate poverty but they are either choosing not to or are incompetent. take your pick. They'd rather give meals to children that don't need them than tackle the reasons for some children not being properly fed.

if you keep trotting out the same lies then people start thinking they are true - SNP strategy since day 1.

WaxOn the article is about unicef feeding children in Southwark.

That is terrible re unicef. Statements like 'small countries tend to be richer' doesn't give me much confidence that we can avoid the same here and Scotland has tax raising powers.

@Outsidemum1 An independent Scotland would have a budget deficit of 8% and therefore would have austerity measures for years. However, in the long term, it would probably be better off as a country in the EU and enjoy greater prosperity which would enable it to help its poor.

But it would take a while. Nation building isn't an overnight endeavor. There would definitely be short term pain and maybe its right that I hold my horses on moving to scotland on the basis of that. As I am not a Scot, I guess I am not super motivated to sacrifice for the good of a country that I just moved to.

I moved to Edinburgh for work about 15 years ago and you would struggle to get me to leave now. I love the lifestyle of being in a city but one that's very green and has the sea on one side and hills on the other. Great restaurants, good train & plane links, good cultural scene.....for quality of life I think it's hard to fault and I think it would be a great place to bring up kids. OK, it's not London but I wouldn't want to live there regardless of how much I got paid.
House prices are not cheap but admittedly cheaper than London.
You probably know the job market in your field better than anyone on here will - ask around your colleagues, browse linkedin, see what the vibe is re. jobs and opportunities. I moved within my existing company and moved because the opportunities here were better with different clients.

@emmathedilemma there are quite a few jobs in my field. :) which is why i considered it. When i searched for similar jobs in other cities like manchester, nothing came up.

Thats the thing- i do love London and its an amazing city to live in. But its only an amazing city to live in if you live in the right areas which I am lucky to live in right now (a lot of people would pounce on me for saying this, but imho the nice safe neighbourhoods with good schools and good transport links in London are all expensive without exception or v far out). Admittedly, most londoners can't afford to and unless something drastically changes, it would cost me £800-1 million to live in such an area and also live in a 3 bed. Maybe I could afford it one day, but I want a backup plan if i can't. But at the same time, leaving a city with arguably the best job opportunities in the UK for a city with cheaper housing may not be a best move for a 28 year old. For a 48 year old, i can see it, you have worked for many years, you probably have some status and flexibility. I guess what I am asking is- do you feel your career wouldn't be any better in London vs Edinburgh?

@emmathedilemma and are you worried about scottish independence. I wasn't initally worried, as I thought it might never happen but the posters here have convinced me otherwise...As with any new country, there would definitely be teething difficulties...If you think about it, with Brexit, we were just leaving an economic bloc.

Scotland is trying to leave a country that it has been part of for the last 300 years. That is serious nation building.

It seems like the debate here is quality of life v career opportunities?
The London debate wasn't an issue for me as my industry isn't London-centric.
Do you already have kids or planning them? If so, then I think you need to carefully consider how that might impact on your career plans, income and how you'd manage childcare - if you've got a long commute into London from the home counties then you're looking at an early morning drop off and late pick up at nursery / before & after school clubs and your ability to do this is dependent on the trains running to schedule, or they commute in with you and go to childcare near your work. If you live within Edinburgh city then your commute to the centre would be less and if the buses let you down (very rare IME) at worst it's a tenner in a taxi to make it to nursery pick up in time. Or you hire a nanny.

What role are you in currently and what are you aiming for?

The SG in Holyrood actually run a surplus and not a deficit. This has been the case every year since 2007. Last year's surplus was £449m.

On the other hand, the UK Governments ( Labour, Conservative and Coalition) have run deficits every year since 2001 - and most years since 1945. Scotland only has a deficit because elements of this endemic UK deficit are apportioned to the normal Scottish Government surplus, as happens in the GERS exercise. * The SG surplus is needed because the SG don't have control of spending so it's kept for unseen future events. Foe example, I
If splitting the UK covid funding by population, Scotland is due £1.4bn but we are getting around half of that. Yet we'll be due to repay the population percentage ( 10 per cent) of the whole amount.

hmmm, independence.....not sure about that one.....it didn't influence my decision to move here because it wasn't so much in the spotlight then as it is now. I was happy the vote was a "no" but that was before Brexit! Do not get me started on the fact that it was meant to be a "once in a lifetime" vote!! I guess i'm a bit hypocritical in that I support a lot of things you get in Scotland that you don't in England such as free prescriptions, eye tests and no uni fees but I would never vote SNP and would happily slap Queen Nicola given the chance!

@emmathedilemma i live in london zone 3 and would be looking at childcare in that area. my MIL also lives near me but i am not relying on her totally for childcare. For me, its a 20 minute tube ride to work on the northern line. The reason why i am considering edinburgh was cos I didn't want to move to home counties or even outer suburbs. Debate is between bigger flat vs career opportunities & Family (who live in london).. i think the quality of life is very good in london as I am from singapore which is 100000 x more congested than london and I am not working till 12 midnight everyday (like my mother and my cousins) and consumer goods/groceries are so cheap in london compared to singapore.

@Outsidemum1 analyst/associate level but probably hope to rise to VP level.

@emmathedilemma if there wasn't the independence dilemma, I would be 90% move to edinburgh! Cos Edinburgh is very competitive as a city with the highest percentage of professionals in the UK and if it didn't have the spectre of independence looming over it, i think a lot of professionals would have moved to scotland esp with WFH. So when I am older, it could very well rival London. It is beautiful and has all the characteristics of a world class city, as does Glasgow.

I mean, I don't want to be the person who moves to Edinburgh, buys a beautiful tenement flat and then is in instant negative equity cos Scotland is an independent country and the companies pull out... oh and my child gets bullied at school for being half English (actually he or she would only be a quarter but a few of the nationalist people are a bit scary).

@emmathedilemma i don't think anti english sentiment is a problem in edinburgh now. but it could be an uncomfortable place for english people to live in if Scotland gets independence. just like how london became uncomfortable for some polish people even though london is broadly welcoming to people of all colours and faiths.

Instant negative equity? You realise what's happening at the moment with covid and Boris' no deal? We're about to go into the worst recession in 300 years because of the UK Government's mismanagement of the economy.

VP is very do able in Scotland. As is MD, ED yet obviously there's much less of those compared to VPs. Can I ask what company? You could likely just get a transfer.

For what it's worth, I was asked to lead teams in London and Baltimore but didn't fancy it and have to say I've never regretted it. My best friend lives on the 9th floor of what's essentially a nice £600m flat in a tower block. Well, she does currently but is selling to move back. It just depends what you want in life and there's no right answer. Also the violent crime in London is something which I'd worry about if raising a family. Sorry I've missed if you have children.

Just because we might believe that an independent Scotland (as an equal partner to England) will be better for our families, it doesn't mean we're ' scary nationalists'. You'd be welcomed and settle in very quickly I'm sure.
There's been a huge surge of people moving up to Scotland from the SE. As far north as Inverness, houses are selling for £500k because of it. So don't think you'd be the only one. People wouldn't even take notice of an English accent it's so common.

I don't agree that it would be an uncomfortable place to live with an english accent if scotland got independence. Even my most hardened "yes" vote friends are lovely civilised people!

@StarryEyeSurprise the 'violent crime' is very overhyped tbh and its usually in certain areas amongst kids of a certain demographic.
I don't have children but hoping to have 1.

Edinburgh is lovely, london is a great city, both can be great places to live in. There are many amazing place to live in, which is why it can be hard to choose! Many people leave london but equally many move into take their place. We don't need to devalue 1 capital city to elevate another. :)

I guess people's fear of independence is the unknown. I moved back to London pre brexit and also bought my flat after the price of the flat dropped 15% due to Brexit. I didn't actually think at that time brexit would happen. Scottish independence is a bigger unknown than Brexit, it does stand to reason that the property prices may drop in the interim if scotland votes for independence.

I dislike the tories, but i think you would find most countries are in dreadful recessions due to Covid 19. Most countries have not handled covid 19 well and have paid the price for it. Boris' no deal is dreadful, but then again there is no guarantee scotland would join the EU either.

The people moving up are presumably cashing in on a lot of equity in the SE and can weather some resetting in house prices here. We didn't think independence was a real prospect when we moved 10 years ago, and now I have to try not to think about it.

The people that think Scotland can avoid brexit related downturns by independence at least in the 5 year horizon with currency and entry criteria uncertainty are mind boggling.

And as for 'the scot gov runs a surplus' hahahaha. I'd be so much less terrified of nationalists (whilst still not agreeing with them re Scottish exceptionalism) if there was a real grappling with how we would fund the huge start up costs and the extra spending over the tax take, and not cheesy sound bites to mislead people.

We've never had issues due to accent in Edinburgh. Neither has our eldest in school even if half English.
There are a lot of people around us who aren't Scottish and I have never heard of any aggro. I was not here when the last referendum happened so I can't say what the mood was like then.

When I was 28 and living in London I would never have left. The work opportunities were amazing and there was endless stuff to do. But ten years later with kids there was no way I'd go back there. And it's mainly kids that make London such an unappealing prospect. If you don't plan them in the immediate future I would stay put. So much can change in a few years!