Schools closing early

[Trichford]

What are your thoughts on what was spoken about albeit briefly on Friday about possibly closing schools on the 18th and returning on the 11th?
They said it's going to be discussed further this week.
I wonder if they go ahead it will be complete closure or blended learning for the extra days 🤔

Precisely fuck all will come of it @Trichford

Yeah I think the same.

Our schools are finishing on the 18th, the next week will be challenging for childcare but a drop in the ocean compared with earlier in the year. I don't understand why every council hasn't taken the same approach, our teachers need a proper break.

The one thing I would note is "a move to remote learning" rather than additional holidays.

EIS are now advocating stopping on the 11th. I presume they'd negotiate up to the 18th.

Being in on the 21st and 22nd is really ridiculous. There is no justifiable reason for it.

Personally I think the EIS is why teachers come in for criticism - they’ve railed against every move to get schools back and create a bad impression, which is totally at odds with teachers I know.

Dolly where did you read that? I've read the most recent stuff they've put out (I think) and it didn't say the 11th.
All the unions have ever wanted is for their members to be safe; that's kind of the point of unions, to advocate for their members.
And fuck knows no one else will advocate for us.

It was our LA secretary Mistress.

The EIS isn't why teachers come in for criticism- it's society's view of teachers that can't stand our union advocating for us

And that he is in an environment with his peers that enables and encourages learning - even if that is making Christmas decorations and watching the muppets. They are still learning, discussing, interacting with people not in his nuclear family, practising motor skills, learning from random stuff the teacher is chatting about while they are busy... It's not childcare to me, it's education, and it is really, really important.

This is a lovely sentiment, but who do you think pays for all those Christmas decorations? All that lovely thick paper, pom poms, glittery bits (enough for 35, because someone always mucks theirs up and someone else has to make two because mum and dad are separated)? Who bought the DVD? Who buys cakes, icing, sprinkles, juice, hot chocolate?

Teachers. We buy 70-80% of that, and it all adds up. There's always pressure to do nice things and this year there's even more, because the children have had a crap year and they're not getting to go ice skating or to see a pantomime.

If you, as parents, want this sort of activity and value it, then value your teachers.

This is a lovely sentiment, but who do you think pays for all those Christmas decorations? All that lovely thick paper, pom poms, glittery bits (enough for 35, because someone always mucks theirs up and someone else has to make two because mum and dad are separated)? Who bought the DVD? Who buys cakes, icing, sprinkles, juice, hot chocolate?

In our school it’s the Parent Council who pays for it, using funds raised in the community and through parents and from the wider school budget. Im not at all sure how it’s devaluing of teachers to say we want our kids in school.

I suppose if you really value the teachers who have been getting on with teaching your dc during a pandemic, you might listen to them when they say that please, for the sake of their own relatives, close schools with more than a day to go before Christmas Eve.

I really do feel for teachers, the fact they risk going in to teach 30 kids everyday and they won't even get the chance to meet with elderly family members at Christmas due to when the school finish up!
I feel they have had a rotten deal in all of this and some parents really don't care.

Agree with everything DollyMixtureLulus said. Those lovely activities are bought by the teacher...it's hard enough to get basic supplies out of the school budget. My HT just bought glue sticks for every class out her own pocket. It's ridiculous.

I can listen, and care but it’s not a decision I have any influence on. I also care about the impact on my children when school is disrupted, the level of distress and dysregulation this year caused by lack of routine, the changes to the school environment have been incredible, and the impact on their health and well-being is immeasurable. Changing the end of term with two weeks notice would impact on them massively - should I care more about school staff than I do for my children?

It’s entirely possible to care about both but my children’s needs will take preeminence.

My own job means that I won’t be seeing my elderly relatives over Christmas, and haven’t seen them in the flesh since February or in some cases since last Christmas - I finish on Christmas Eve and the nature of my work means it’s too risky, my colleagues are in the same position. Maybe I too should be able finish on the 18th to give me time, but that’s not possible.

It’s shit all round, but me wanting my kids in school doesn’t mean I don’t care, or don’t recognise the challenges, or that I don’t value teachers.

It's been such a crap year for so many, I feel sorry for teachers, I feel sorry for parents and especially parents and kids with additional needs.

This will be the last Christmas we have these problems hopefully.

I've always thought being at school in Christmas week a nonsense though.

No you're clear finishing two days early would "massively impact" on your dc!
The government absolutely do take account of what parents (aka voters) think about all this. Will be interesting to see how many parents voluntarily remove their dc that week, I suspect it will be high.
Why did the SG come up with the idea in the first place? It wasn't teachers who proposed it.

In our school it’s the Parent Council who pays for it, using funds raised in the community and through parents and from the wider school budget.

Yes, same here, (obviously not so many funds raised this year though) though I appreciate that teachers do spend their own money on some stuff, which they totally shouldn't have to.

listen to them when they say that please, for the sake of their own relatives, close schools with more than a day to go before Christmas Eve.

I agree, this year has been shit and it is rubbish that so many people are feeling they can't visit relatives. The SG have made it perfectly clear that we really shouldn't be if we can possibly help it, so many are deciding the risk due to their public facing jobs, caring responsibilities, children having been at school or whatever is too great. Very few people will have the luxury of being able to isolate the family before the 23rd or beyond the 27th to protect their "Christmas bubble", and then to protect their school community, whether or not schools were open. I think on this thread, everyone is reasonable and responsible and would use any extra "time off" to minimise risk, but in the wider community I'm not sure that's a likely scenario. It is rubbish for teachers, but this year is intrinsically rubbish for everyone in different ways and I don't think it's particularly "uncaring" or disrespectful to teachers to want children to stick to the planned term dates in school.

Having a Monday and a Tuesday off will ‘massively impact’ your DC?

What are you planning on doing if you get told to self isolate on the 17th?

Having a Monday and a Tuesday off will ‘massively impact’ your DC?

My children both have complex additional needs, after being out of school for 5 months, coping with the various changes to the school environment and the changes to teaching practices, and the significant reduction in support for them which makes accessing the curriculum a daily challenge, and then changing the end of the school term will impact them significantly. They struggle with transition and changes to routine. They struggle with not knowing ahead of time what plans are in place for them, they need routine, predictability and consistency.

Their respective coping capacity has been stretched to its fullest this year and they wont see much loved grand parents and family members this Christmas - and haven’t seen them for most of this year. Yes a further change on top of everything else this year will impact massively on them.

If you can understand the cumulative impact of this year on adults, surely you can see it on children too?

Yes, which is why a longer, more settled Christmas holiday will be better for the majority of children.

You’ve just gone on about routine etc but advocated closing on a Tuesday... that doesn’t sound like a routine to me?

Two weeks at Christmas is plenty long enough for a settled holiday - I’m not advocating to finish on Tuesday, that’s the date set by the local authority and my two know that Tuesday is the last day of term. That’s when they’re expecting to finish. They won’t process finishing on Friday as an extra 2 days holiday - they’ll process it as a change they weren’t expecting.

A date which was obviously set pre-covid. It should have been identified as an issue away back at the beginning of term.

In the current climate, two weeks is only long enough to make sure that someone isn't infected. You can surely look outside your own bubble long enough to see the potential for everything to go wrong, either meaning that some children will be isolating over Christmas, staff can't see their families over Christmas, and on the other side of the coin, there is the risk of the children and staff who do socialise over Christmas coming back at their most infectious in January.

I can’t see my family over Christmas- this isn’t a situation unique to teachers.

As a previous poster said, very few people will be in a position to isolate pre/post the 23rd/27th however assuming folk stick to the rules post the Christmas window the 10th January return date gives over 10 days for symptoms to arise and for testing and isolation if needed. If they don’t, communities including schools will face the same issues regardless of when the return date is.

Sorry our return date is 11th January - the school break is 19 days long, so much longer than the 14 days you’re quoting here. Obviously other local authorities differ but in mine the gap between families possibly mixing and return to school is longer than the 14 days isolation even for close contacts.

Your problem is assuming people will stick to the rules.

This thread is about a situation which is unique to teachers, which is there is a plan, but there are several workable options which could make Christmas/NY safer for a lot of families.

• finish on the 11th and return on the 11th - hard to find childcare but government could step in and do emergency payments like in Wales. Gives the best amount of time to stop children transmitting the virus.

• finish on the 18th and return on the 11th- given that you are most likely to show symptoms within 5-7 days after infection, is the most sensible option

• finish on the 22nd and return on the 6th

My council returns to school on the 6th January, which, given that most people are likely to develop symptoms in 5-7 days after infection, means that it coincides nicely with a NY party with one asymptomatic person.

But that suits you, so let's all crack on.

Your problem is assuming people will stick to the rules.

Not necessarily- I will as I have done throughout, but if people choose not to stick to the rules then schools and workplaces will have these concerns regardless of when schools return.

Childcare difficulties aren’t the only consideration in closing schools early, there’s the impact on children in interrupting their education yet again and the impact for those children for whom school helps hold them steady and for those where home isn’t a safe place, where school provides them with safety and protection.

I’m happy with my local authority and their timings so yes, finishing on the 22nd and returning on the 11th does suit me. Taking children out of school for a month has wider knock on effects and yes parents will need to find childcare which at two weeks notice is nigh on impossible. Finishing on the 18th still leaves a risk of needing to isolate over Christmas.

This really should have been settled at the start of term, when staff and parents alike could plan appropriately - trying to find a reasonable solution at this point in the year is going to prove impossible.