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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Are any of you angry with N.S.

118 replies

Torvean32 · 17/11/2020 17:00

In Aberdeen she locked us down at 77 cases. We were fully locked down. 5 mile travel ban. Nobody in or out if the city unless for work/care. The lockdown lasted 3 weeks with no spread.

The cases in Glasgow were extremely high before NS took action.

So I'm asking , if you dont live in Glasgow are you annoyed that the central belt ( and related areas) spread could have been avoided?

OP posts:
Scotslassie1 · 19/11/2020 20:49

Nice article in the Spectator magazine (below) although I'm not sure how it got past the editor!

Scotland can’t afford to remain part of the Union

Tony Blair’s biggest achievement was delivering a referendum that unified Scotland behind devolution and gave all parties a stake in its success. Boris Johnson is wrong to say it was ‘a disaster’, but in being wrong is helping precipitate the logical next step: independence. The opinion polls that show a growing majority for Scottish independence will mystify those who believe the lazy, metropolitan idea that independence is an emotional fantasy — all Braveheart, Bannockburn and bagpipes. How, they ask, could a band of Caledonian romantics ever convince the canny Scots to opt for such a thing?

But what if the case for independence was a highly sophisticated position advocated by one of the most popular political leaders in the world? It is now supported by 64 per cent of those aged under 65, according to one of the latest polls. The Spectator, while founded by a Scot, has never supported the idea of his homeland’s independence. But its readers rightly pride themselves on reading different points of view. I seek not your support but your understanding as I try to explain what is really going on here.

The problem for Scotland is that it cannot afford to remain on the UK’s glide path. Staying in the Union is riskier than independence. Voters can see that.

So why now? Brexit is the biggest part of the answer. Not just the fact of it but the manner of it. Brexit has become the emblem of a parting of perspective, outlook, ambition and values. Scottish voters want Scotland to return to Europe. It is true that Boris Johnson and his unpopularity in Scotland doesn’t help the Unionists’ case. But Scottish voters are not stupid and won’t make a permanent decision just to escape a prime minister whose premiership is as ‘deciduous as autumn leaves’. The issue is not him so much as the system that created him — and when he goes, as he will, that will remain.

Independence support is also emphatically not born of a chip on the shoulder towards England. If you don’t believe me, ponder this: in the 2014 referendum, a majority of people born in Scotland voted for independence. The ‘no’ vote was secured by the votes of people born elsewhere. Supporters of independence do not make anything of this, because they know that where people were born doesn’t matter. Scots look at Britain and see a country whose standing in the world is at its lowest ever ebb. They see, with Brexit, a regrettable desire to retreat from the world.

Every society now looks into the future, asking what to do after the pandemic ends. Which parliament would Scots choose to lead them through the great reform era that is upon us: Holyrood or Westminster? Which do they trust more on policies on the climate crisis, inequality and public finances? Which do you think?

In his outstanding book The Levelling: What’s Next After Globalisation, the Irish author Michael O’Sullivan points out that in 1924 Argentina was three times wealthier than Japan but is today half as rich. His point is that countries can make colossal strategic errors. The UK has been in a slow descent for some time now. It used to be the richest country on Earth, but currently sits in 21st position in the IMF rankings, and Brexit is hastening the drop. Why should Scotland now buckle in and continue to not enjoy the ride?

Unionists have long stopped arguing a positive case. Instead, they say, a different future for Scotland cannot be sought because of the starting point and the difficulties of the transition. Deficits, currency, borders: it all adds up to the same argument: ‘I wouldn’t start from here.’ So Scotland is stuck. This is a thin and vision-free case.

The SNP prospectus is worked out and clear on currency, public finances and how it would approach an agreement with the rest of the UK. It seeks an orderly transition that is stated in advance — the antithesis of Brexit. Scotland would retain sterling until preparations for a new currency are completed and tests are met ensuring that it is in Scotland’s interests. That will take time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but it was worth building. A new central bank would be created immediately, serving similar functions to euro members’ central banks until the currency timing is right.

The UK economy is one of the most un-equal in the developed world. Every region outside the South East has large notional, and estimated, deficits — and Scotland’s is by no means the worst. The economic inequality that underpins them is the very reason to change, not to shore up the status quo. Levelling up? No, the Scots have higher ambitions.

The UK deficit this year, after Covid, will be more than twice what Scotland’s was last year and it is being funded at historically low rates of interest. Yet Scots are asked to believe that their deficit starting point would be unfundable. Clearly this is not true.

Furthermore, the Scottish government will seek to agree an Annual Solidarity Payment to the UK government to make good the agreed share of inherited debt interest payments and any joint work and projects that continue. How do you think that policy compares with the UK approach to Brexit?

Which brings me to the border: Scotland wants a frictionless one, yet Brexit imposes a new one to our east and west. We still — four years after the Brexit vote — await the detail on what it will mean.

What is so wrong, then, with the Scots — an identity of choice, not birth — wanting to have their own choices to determine who they are? They know it will take a huge effort. It will be hard work. But a growing majority believe it will be worth it.

RaspberryCoulis · 20/11/2020 08:11

Not just Nicola Sturgeon. The whole fucking lot of them.

Mostly Sturgeon, Swinney and the SNP incompetents. But also wet and useless Richard Leonard and the other leaders for failing to stand up and question them effectively on their handling of this series of fuck ups, from the Nike conference, through the discharging people into carehomes, the SQA mess and now this tier nonsense.

cocopops · 20/11/2020 12:18

@RaspberryCoulis

Not just Nicola Sturgeon. The whole fucking lot of them.

Mostly Sturgeon, Swinney and the SNP incompetents. But also wet and useless Richard Leonard and the other leaders for failing to stand up and question them effectively on their handling of this series of fuck ups, from the Nike conference, through the discharging people into carehomes, the SQA mess and now this tier nonsense.

This 100%
Cheekychops73 · 20/11/2020 18:13

@RaspberryCoulis

Not just Nicola Sturgeon. The whole fucking lot of them.

Mostly Sturgeon, Swinney and the SNP incompetents. But also wet and useless Richard Leonard and the other leaders for failing to stand up and question them effectively on their handling of this series of fuck ups, from the Nike conference, through the discharging people into carehomes, the SQA mess and now this tier nonsense.

100% agree.
Bejazzled · 20/11/2020 18:37

@RaspberryCoulis

Not just Nicola Sturgeon. The whole fucking lot of them.

Mostly Sturgeon, Swinney and the SNP incompetents. But also wet and useless Richard Leonard and the other leaders for failing to stand up and question them effectively on their handling of this series of fuck ups, from the Nike conference, through the discharging people into carehomes, the SQA mess and now this tier nonsense.

This 100% And add to that their sheer arrogance of how they are obstructing the Salmond review, beggars belief really awful party
MumofHunter · 20/11/2020 18:49

Alex Salmond was cleared of all charges by a jury and when the complaints came to light I believe the first minister changed guidance to include former members.
And why would you not want tiers? Shetland and Orkney have near 0 cases. Why should they have the same restrictions as areas with a high prevalence of covid. Makes no logical sense.
It's beyond me how people can believe the absolute rubbish that the Tories put out under their Trump strategy of telling lies enough times and people will believe them. Douglas Ross' favourite is that the firm minister signed and /or put a clause in the Edinburgh Act that another referendum would not take place for another generation. He knows this is made up but people believe it. The furore over AS which I don't get why people are falling over themselves to join in and blame NS for.. what?! Even if he had been found guilty in court, that wouldn't have been her fault. Bizarre.

MumofHunter · 20/11/2020 18:54

My last post has ben jumbled up, weird.

In other news, our other leader's minister has been found, by an independent inquiry, to have breached ministerial conduct. He has stood by her and gone against the recommendations of the report.

Anything to say on that?

cocopops · 20/11/2020 20:13

Typical SNP deflection. When their actions come under scrutiny, blame someone else. What is going on with Pritti Useless is of no relevance to this debate.

anon444877 · 20/11/2020 20:16

Erm yes why would I feel the need to defend Boris and Priti Patel? It doesn't have much to do with the devolved health situation in Scotland.

MumofHunter · 20/11/2020 20:21

Just wondered if those slating the FM had any thoughts on our other leader of Parliament..

MumofHunter · 20/11/2020 20:22

And it was in relation to the Alex Salmond comment.

Nyx · 21/11/2020 10:30

""Before her election to Parliament, she was a commercial sales supervisor for a manufacturing construction company in Motherwell."
Also she was friendly with NS and likely an activist in the party. Everything is perfectly fine, but perhaps she would have been more suited as a city councillor.

So what you're saying is that SNP MPs/MSPs are not parliamentary material because - what? They weren't educated in Oxbridge and/or been a top banker or similar? Hmmm.

Arkadia · 21/11/2020 21:27

Just today I was reading that Scotland has the third worsy mortality per mil people in the world, after Belgium and Peru and id well ahead of England (but who is keeping score anyway).

@Nyx, certainly not. That applies to anyone.
Let's face it, if I joined the Tory party and stood in a South of England seat I would be elected, but would I bring to parliament?
In Italy there is a minister with very little schooling; she started working when she was very young in the fields and then rose up in the union ranks and then in the party's. Now she has become minister for agriculture for which she is eminently qualified. So, no, you don't necessarily have to go to Oxbridge to go to parliament, but by and large it helps, although there are exceptions. An example closer to home is John Major who never went to university or Margaret Thatcher who hardly came from an affluent background, but did go to Oxford if I correctly remember.

MumofHunter · 21/11/2020 22:15

Where did you read that? Us for Them? ( I saw someone wrote it there but they're been called out for using incorrect data). Confused

Also, the point you're arguing is unclear. I think you're saying it helps if you go to Oxbridge..? Also, you realise Mhairi Black has a first class honours degree in Politics and is the youngest ever politician to be elected to the House of Commons? Clever lass. Or, are we back to the 'class' related insults re those who vote for her?

cocopops · 22/11/2020 09:54

Ha. Again- typical SNP deflection. Don’t like the message so it must be made up.

cocopops · 22/11/2020 09:59

And a first class degree in Politics from your local uni plus NO EXPERIENCE IN THE REAL WORLD (bit like Sturgeon whose only experience is a couple of years “working” at Castlemilk Law centre) isn’t really something us Scots should be crowing about.

She embarrasses the whole of Scotland every time she opens her mouth in Parliament.

giggly · 22/11/2020 21:47

@cocopops having spent a few years myself working in Castlemilk I’d say that would give most people a decent insight into working IN THE REAL WORLD

cocopops · 23/11/2020 13:24

Not the real commercial world- the place where people actually have a job and pay taxes.

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