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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

First ministers briefing

999 replies

Trichford · 18/04/2020 13:08

Is there one on today? If so what time will it be? Thanks

OP posts:
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9
Mascotte · 10/06/2020 18:04

Great news about tourism!

I'm really hoping she'll follow the bubble thing too.

Then schools...

Rhumba · 10/06/2020 18:17

Being able to travel is great although not much time if can't travel til the 15th July and schools are going back the 11th. The A9 is going to be hell!

SockYarn · 10/06/2020 19:10

I am so fucked off with the situation in schools that I have for the first time ever written to my MSP (who won't reply as he's SNP, so have written to the others on the regional list who aren't).

"Dear Mr X, am one of your constituents with three children in the school system in X. My youngest is due to start S1 at Z Academy in the summer ,with my older children due to start S4 and S6. I am very concerned about the Scottish government's proposal for "blended learning" for the start of the 2020/21 school session for a number of reasons.

Firstly, my children have been out of school since 20th March. Online provision has been poor, especially as Y Council have a blanket ban on online teaching, whether in real-time, or recorded. This is simply not sustainable going forward. As parents we provide what support we can, but it is impossible to both hold down your own job, and simultaneously educate three children. Furthermore, both of my eldest children are studying subjects of which I have no experience and knowledge, and require specialist support from teachers in school.

Proposals are being made for two days per week in school. My children are all at critical stages of their education. One will be sitting National 5 exams next year, another will be applying for University this autumn, and the third will be trying to get to grips with starting secondary education. 2 days a week is simply not enough time in school.

We are fortunate in this house that we have sufficient tech for all three children plus two parents working at home, but I am acutely aware that other families are not so lucky. Providing a part-time education for children will affect the mental health and personal relationships of all children, and will damage the life chances for many on a permanent basis.

Given the sharply falling incidence of Covid19 in Scotland, I simply cannot see the justification for this policy. I call on you to urge schools to work on the assumption that education from August will be full-time, in school, without social distancing measures. Failure to do this will put the future prospects of our children and more importantly their mental health and wellbeing, at extreme risk.

I look forward to your urgent response on this issue."#

will keep you posted on any response.

Mascotte · 10/06/2020 19:15

Good letter @SockYarn. I've been busily campaigning today too and some supporters for a full time return to school have come out of the woodwork, pleasingly.

It's going to be increasingly hard to justify when everything else is opening up. It's time they just told the schools to get back full time, dropped the 2m SD and looked after the children of Scotland.

SockYarn · 10/06/2020 19:18

I emailed John Swinney too. DH wanted me to add "ya fanny" on the end but I didn't.

Mascotte · 10/06/2020 19:21

Is that not part of his email address..?

titsbumfannythelot · 10/06/2020 19:40

Your husband sounds like he's on my wavelength, @SockYarn

MumofHunter · 10/06/2020 19:57

The thing is if the UK puts all pupils back in all the time, there will be another wave and another 40,000 lives lost in winter. We're only where we were in the middle of March - Covid is still in the community. If we were able to close the borders (and not be dictated to) it's highly likely we could have gone back to full classes even before the holidays.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/06/2020 20:21

@MumofHunter there are a lot of assumptions in that paragraph, and I don't think many of them can be justified. There is no evidence of a second wave of infections from other countries, and a few high profile immunologists have said they don't believe in one - this is a feature of flu and was included as an assumption in the modelling, but thus far there is little sign of one with COVID. Secondly, infection rates are currently dropping like a stone and by August, another 2 months away, could very well be negligible. Thirdly, the evidence available suggests that children are much LESS efficient at spreading this virus than adults, and the modelling predicts that the impact of opening in full is relatively small. If choices have to be made, I would argue that children's education should be prioritised above other activities. Lastly, with the exception of control over borders, ALL of the measures than are taken, or not, to control spread in Scotland, including decisions about opening schools, are entirely the responsibility of the Scottish government.

Mascotte · 10/06/2020 20:53

@YOuCannOt well put

MumofHunter · 10/06/2020 20:57

The biggest step that could've been taken to stop Covid and get back to normal asap was to close the borders. There's been at least 113,000 cases of Covid being taken into the country via flights from abroad. SNP wanted to do this right at the start (similar to NZ) and indeed wrote to the UK gov several times to request this in order to save lives and were refused.
Can you tell me - what are the countries you're referring to with a similar death rate to the UK that have opened schools fully (all pupils in, full time) and not had another wave? The modelling I saw had 400 daily deaths if schools re open fully.
I'm aware education is devolved thanks. My understanding is that all UK countries will be blended learning post summer hence why I wrote UK .

SamSeabornforPresident · 10/06/2020 20:58

MumofHunter "The thing is if the UK puts all pupils back in all the time, there will be another wave and another 40,000 lives lost in winter"

That is a ludicrous statement with no grounding in fact whatsoever.

I definitely hope that the schools should reopen properly in August, with open windows and an increase in hand washing, but I strongly suspect I am a lone voice among my teacher colleagues.

Mascotte · 10/06/2020 21:26

There's no evidence of any second wave anywhere else.

MumofHunter · 10/06/2020 21:44

What countries have opened fully though which have been affected by Covid as much as us? I may be wrong!
For my life, it's easier if we open for all, full time, but I can't say I don't think there would be lots of deaths if we do that.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/06/2020 22:19

No-one's talking about reopening schools now, although quite honestly there are several regions of Scotland with barely any transmission who could probably safely do that. Across the whole of Scotland, there were 12 new infections recorded today (infections, not deaths and not even necessarily very ill), compared to 33 infections last Wednesday, 55 infections two weeks ago, and 96 three weeks ago. The point is the number of infections is dropping off very rapidly and could well be virtually zero by the time the schools are due to go back. There might be a increase after easing other restrictions and the mass protests etc., but we'll know that in a week or two, still long before the schools are due to reopen. So why on earth would the default assumption be that infections are going to be so rampant we need to seriously damage our children's future and Scotland's economic recovery by not allowing schools back in full? That doesn't even seem likely right now never mind certain. Why not have the 'blended learning' as a back up plan, continue to monitor, and assume that children will be going back unless there's clear data that suggests that would be a bad idea?

Mascotte · 10/06/2020 22:22

Yes, exactly. Full time as default, "blended"
As backup. Makes sense with the figures.

Pootle40 · 10/06/2020 23:12

Lets hope and pray there is an about turn on this blended learning (read 'not much learning') before too long. They're starting to look silly now. 12 infections.........

Arkadia · 10/06/2020 23:22

O di believe schools are a bit of a red herring. Let's look at Italy for example, come next week they will have reopened everything (not schools) and with the exception of some bland social distancing, not a great deal of restrictions. Let's see how they fare.
Also England: let's see how they fare, especially London and the south east which are more densely populated.
More to the point, what about tracing and testing? Has it been mentioned of late?
Also it would be good to know where the new cases originates from. That is always a mystery (and not just in Scotland).

Mascotte · 10/06/2020 23:24

I think the problem with test and trace just now is that there are so few cases? I also
think they're nearly all in care homes or hospitals; I'd welcome information on how many are in the community at large.

SamSeabornforPresident · 11/06/2020 05:34

This does appear to be the problem. Those raging about the fact that they're not carrying out 15,000 tests a day are missing the fact that 15000 tests a day are not needed. They're failing at testing in care homes, but given that anyone with any symptoms can be tested now it seems the level of community transmission really is very low.

WaxOnFeckOff · 11/06/2020 07:53

Are there not about 60000 care home staff that are supposed to be tested weekly?

Librarybooksandacoconut · 11/06/2020 07:53

I wrote to my MSP yesterday about returning schools full time in August (I’m going to email the regional ones today, thanks for the tip whoever it was!). Here’s what I’ve said (I’ve deleted some specific details to try and not be too identifying)

Dear Mr X

I am writing to you concerning the current educational crisis that has resulted from the coronavirus pandemic. As both a parent and a teacher within your constituency, I am extremely concerned by the long-term damage that is being inflicted on our children as a result of school closures and the plans for blended learning from August. With two months to continue to monitor both the infection and death rates from coronavirus, to fully implement the track, trace and isolate policy, and to examine evidence from other countries that have reopened schools, I strongly urge you to reconsider your plans to only offer education on a part time basis to the children of Scotland.

While the decision to close schools in March because of the potential risks to pupils, staff and the wider community was the best available at that point in time, we are now long past that stage. Infection rates and deaths have now fallen dramatically from the peak of the crisis. I am sure you are aware that only one death has been recorded across ... in the last fortnight, 9 covid- positive patients are currently in ....Hospital and only 6 new infections have been identified in the last week across the .....Health Board. Furthermore, today’s NRS figures show that overall death rates across Scotland are now at a level that is statistically within the normal range of deaths at this time of year (37 in excess of the 5 year average of 1056), and only 12 new infections have been identified today.

Considering we are now at a point where infections and deaths are at extremely low levels both nationally and locally, and schools will not be reopening for another two months, I do not understand why the Scottish Government is continuing to pursue blended learning as the first choice plan for the new session. I would absolutely agree that planning for blended learning as a contingency measure is essential, but this should only be needed if there is change from the current low levels. Despite the high levels of infections and deaths across Scotland, not a single person under the age of 15 has died. I struggle to understand why the children of Scotland should continue to have to pay such a heavy price in terms of their future life chances because of a disease that primarily affects those over 75.

Although .... have yet released details of their blended learning offer, from other councils it appears that the usual offer is of 2 – 2.5 days a week in school, and that this is being planned for until at least December. At the close of this session children will have lost approximately 310 hours of face to face contact time with their teachers. If blended learning is to continue into next term, and only 2 days a week in school is possible until December, another 285 hours of face to face learning will be lost. As a teacher attempting to deliver online learning to pupils within your constituency, I can assure you that it is a very poor substitute for in-school learning. I have faced huge levels of stress and anxiety over the last three months knowing what a poor experience myself and other colleagues (despite their incredible hard work) are offering our children.

As I am sure you are aware, the children who are most affected by this are those who already face huge disadvantages in life. In this I would include the large number of children who live in poverty within your constituency, those who have Additional Support Needs, those who have English as an Additional Language and those whose parents are struggling with their own mental health needs. My role has me teaching some of your most vulnerable constituents – I know them, their families, and the struggles they face on a daily basis and now I see the educational devastation that this crisis is causing them. Blended learning will be able to offer them what they need in order to have an adequate level of education, and this will only increase the poverty-related attainment gap. I personally see very few pupils in these groups engaging with any online learning due to a myriad of reasons, only one of which is their lack of access to technology. Simply providing them with a laptop will not fix the underlying barriers they face. They need to be in school full time as of August, as do the rest of the children of Scotland.

On a personal level, having my own child attend school for 2 days a week is going to cause huge stress on our family. My husband and I both work in demanding, full time jobs and simply do not have the capacity to effectively support continued home-learning. Our situation is not in the slightest bit unique, and I fear that it will mainly be women who pay the price of this through being forced to give up work to support their children or being side-lined by their employers because of their inability to work during normal office hours. Although my children are still very young and so I worry less about the educational impact, I can see the effect on their wellbeing of being largely confined to their home with no interaction with other children for the last 11 weeks. They need to be in school and nursery as the level of risk to their emotional wellbeing and social development is far higher than that of the effects of coronavirus

I look forward to hearing from you regarding this matter.

Arkadia · 11/06/2020 08:01

My role has me teaching some of your most vulnerable constituents – I know them, their families, and the struggles they face on a daily basis and now I see the educational devastation that this crisis is causing them. Blended learning will be able to offer them what they need in order to have an adequate level of education, and this will only increase the poverty-related attainment gap.
@library, is that a typo or have I misunderstood that passage?

Librarybooksandacoconut · 11/06/2020 08:08

Yes it is, and fortunately I spotted it in the final one I sent off!

SudokuBook · 11/06/2020 08:14

Great letter @SockYarn. My MSP is Derek Mackay so I will also need to write to the list MSPs.

www.npfs.org.uk/2020/06/10/parent-qa-with-deputy-first-minister-john-swinney/

Just seen this shared today, you can submit questions for that dozy cunt Swinney

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