So is IndyRef2 dead and buried after the General Election?

[MacarenaFerreiro]

So SNP lost 21 seats on Thursday and most people believe this is because of their Indy obsession.

Does losing so many seats mean we can forget about another referendum for the foreseeable (once in a generation, remember) and if we can, what's the point of the SNP?

Personally I think Ms Sturgeon totally misjudged it in the same way as May did - she thought that she would lose maybe a couple of seats in the election but nowhere near 22. She certainly didn't expect to see high profile Nats like Salmond, Robertson and Nicolson out on their ears. Half a million voters almost switched to pro-Union parties.

But of course the SNP will say they're still the biggest party in Scotland, still have a mandate, still have an obligation to push for Indy yadda yadda yadda. They've been pretty quiet since Friday mind you...

Look at Greece and tell me how independent their economic policy is atm.

Oh here we go ..announcement from Nicola sturgeon expected this afternoon at 2.20pm on Indy position. Surely it's a 'park it'?

Fingers crossed.

We should put together a "Nippy Bingo" list - see how many of the buzzwords she uses - austerity, Westminster, Tories, settled will, mandate, oil, control, fiscal autonomy, etc etc etc.

Yawn yawn yawn. Annoying little woman that she is. (Have to say I love the Tracey Ullman take off of Sturgeon and "Wee Mairi")

FFS. Timetable has been "reset" with legislation to be put in place in autumn 2018.

Has she really not got the message or is this just to keep the cult happy?

Whatever it looks like I'll be voting tactically for the foreseeable future.

so the strategy remains the same as always, call a referendum as soon as they think support for indy goes up a point or two. Unsurprising...i couldn't honestly countenance the SNP coming out and saying 'you know what, let's get through Brexit and then see'. It would have been nice but it's been clear all along they want to use discontent about Brexit to drive Scotland independent.

So it's from 2019 onwards ?

It is a Neverendum.

It's amazing the amount of people on twitter claiming that NS's announcement of a reset to the plan to introduce legislation immediately to have a referendum at the latest spring 2019, was always the plan and there's been no change to the timetable!! What are these people on?!

The real government have said not until after brexit so whatever Sturgeon says is meaningless. After the next Holyrood election she wont be in power anyway.

Trixy, as I said earlier in the thread "Nicola has said more than once she's basing her timetable on when TM says there will be more clarity on the Brexit negotiations. It has never been set in stone, there has never been a date set. Because TM's Brexit negotiation timetable has been all over the place since day one."

So nothing has really changed except for the timetable for introducing the necessary legislation. The referendum will be held when the terms of Brexit are clearer, therefore giving the Scottish people a choice.

What do you think has changed? IndyRef2 is not 'off the table' at all.

cd - the 'real' government? LOL

NoLottery - "it's been clear all along they want to use discontent about Brexit to drive Scotland independent". Look at what you're saying. If the Scottish people see what sort of Brexit we are heading for; if they see that they don't like it, they may vote to become independent. If they don't mind it, they may vote not to become independent. It's a choice and I for one am happy to have that choice. If there is 'discontent about Brexit' enough to 'drive Scotland independent' then surely it would be a good thing for the Scottish people to be able to vote on that? Or are you only for the union above all else, above Scotland's economy, above the wishes of the majority of Scotland's population?

Nyx, Union above all else? Pretty much, considering how fickle public opinion is. And the economy will always be going up and down. So you are saying that I the economy is on the up you stay, and if it goes down you go? As I said in another thread there is a word for this... Trolloping.

Arkadia - if you're 'pretty much' for Union above all else then not much point chatting/debating.

But if Brexit means 'economy goes down' that's bad. If there is a choice for independence and Scotland being able to negotiate for Scotland (re: EFTA or EU or just any negotiations) and the chance for improvement for Scotland's economy then what's wrong with that.

Also the argument that self governance is normal and good regardless of Brexit still stands.

What's wrong with it as I've said many times is that you're heaping more uncertainty on top of Brexit. A politician with the best interests of the Scottish people at heart would wait for the shock of Brexit to stabilize before re-opening the question of independence and creating more uncertainty. Sturgeon isn't a responsible politician, she'll happily chuck two big shocks together to try and get people to vote independence. If you really believe you can persuade people to independence, what's the rush? It's not sensible from an economic uncertainty perspective to hold a referendum before brexit has shaken out.

I quite agree Calyx. But don't make me look like the bad guy here. For the snp and the nats is independance above all else.
My point is that a fleeting and ever-changing situation is not a valid argument for indipendance. Ever.
Linguistic barriers, a history of oppression, a forced union, colonialism and so on are.
Brexit is but a spot compared to a 3-400 years (according how you like to count) union and the identity of culture that signifies.
Do you think that Scotland is the same as India or the Baltic countries or Bangladesh?

Nyx - I think its only fair Indyref2 has an option to close Holyrood and abandon the failed devolution experiment.

Nyx if you read the transcript of NS's speech of the 13th march she said the latest date for indyref2 would be spring 2019 before the Uk left the EU.

I'd like that option cd!

Of course if voting patterns are like 2014 even if independence squeaks a win then presumably only the areas voting for independence will form iScotland.

After all to quote Ms. Sturgeon "We shouldn't be dragged out of a union against our will".