So is IndyRef2 dead and buried after the General Election?

[MacarenaFerreiro]

So SNP lost 21 seats on Thursday and most people believe this is because of their Indy obsession.

Does losing so many seats mean we can forget about another referendum for the foreseeable (once in a generation, remember) and if we can, what's the point of the SNP?

Personally I think Ms Sturgeon totally misjudged it in the same way as May did - she thought that she would lose maybe a couple of seats in the election but nowhere near 22. She certainly didn't expect to see high profile Nats like Salmond, Robertson and Nicolson out on their ears. Half a million voters almost switched to pro-Union parties.

But of course the SNP will say they're still the biggest party in Scotland, still have a mandate, still have an obligation to push for Indy yadda yadda yadda. They've been pretty quiet since Friday mind you...

Also surely you must deep down inside know why the SNP refuse to be honest about their currency plans?

Which is precisely why you can't deal with such an issue with a referendum.

I do think a referendum is the only way to deal with such an issue, the main problem is the 50% +1 vote hurdle. Id like to see a law put in place that requires a supermajority for such great change.

Oh, yes, trixy, this is what I meant (but didn't say). Either, say, 70+% or 50% of all the voters. After all, what does it mean if 50%+1 voters vote for independence when tomorrow that share could go down to 50%-1
However, there must be better ways of dealing with the issue. Should a country be partition off so easily? Perhaps there should be more than one vote over a number of years to check that public opinion has not shifted.

Most of the seats went back to the party that had them before the SNP uptick.

If 320 people who voted SNP in each seat had voted the other way the SNP wouldn't be the majority Scottish party at Westminster.

IndyRef2 wont happen before a new Holyrood election and with the Westminster election no longer clashing talks are starting to return Holyrood's next election to 2020.

I hope Ruth Davidson stays away from Brexit and Westminster conservatives at present - she could keep her support in Scotland as a remainer in a remain area, but if she's involved with pushing through a hard brexit that'll be an obvious disaster for Scottish tories. There is a strong case to be made for economic liberalism - why do we not have 1 in 4 of our young people unemployed, as the rest of the eurozone do?

oh ffs.

I thought this was very insightful, although not particularly specific to Scotland.

Theresa May: The prisoner of No 10 - www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40245800

Sturgeon in some ways is in a similar position. Although they "won" the election she is under pressure to call off indyref2 from some quarters and under pressure from others to press ahead no matter what.

I see they have taken down the fundraising page for indyref2. Hopefully that means that they have got the message despite what that Scotsman article I linked says.

I know, hearing NS say that she has win the election because she got more seats that X, Y and Z combined has always a very good entertainment value.
I wonder what she would say if she talked about vote share.

Please, kill me now :(

Sturgeon says speculation about her plans for a referendum is "nonsense" - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40263711

Who has she got advising her?!

Let her carry on though, she is damaging the independence cause, as she has no idea how furious people are.

In the meantime I'm going to place a bet on Ruth Davidson being the next FM of Scotland.....

The problem is Trixy that there is a very vocal, very loud minority in the SNP who will never be happy unless they have another referendum. And kepe having referendums until they win. People who oppose IndyRef2 are far less vocal.

Sturgeon for all of her faults is a canny operator - she knows she has to be seen to be pulling back if she has any hope of getting those 500,000 votes back, but still be seen to leave a glimmer of light for the diehards who will accpet nothing but independence.

Oh and it's probably Salmond advising her... he's been out of a job since Friday

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/06/13/scottish-independence-debate-is-far-from-over/

Oh I know macarena, I said below that she was in a difficult position. You would think their priority would be winning back the voters they have lost and changing no voters minds though. Otherwise they have no hope of winning a referendum even if they call one. All she is doing is hardening people's resolve.

I saw a post earlier on facebook: Scotland has rejected unionism in two General Elections now. When will Unionism be taken off the table?!

"People who oppose IndyRef2 are far less vocal" unless they are on Scotsnet, of course.

So let's have a referendum right now then Nyx. Would you be confident of winning it?

I have to say, last time round I pretty much held my council because I did not feel safe (and I mean it literally) in saying that I was voting "no". Now I feel much more emboldened, but I do not know whether I would dare to have a "no" sign near my front door.

I'd prefer to wait until the terms of Brexit are clear. If they are ever clear. But that was what was intended all along. Nobody ever wanted an immediate second referendum. That is simply the line that has been pushed by the unionist politicians, no voters, and the media.

I don't understand why there's such a frenzied panic about this. It's only common sense, surely. Wait until we see what is being offered, then decide as a country whether we will take it or whether we would prefer to try our own way.

Nicola wanted to hold it in Autumn 2018 before brexit talks had been concluded!!!!! She said it would be the "common sense" time to have it.

Nicola has said more than once she's basing her timetable on when TM says there will be more clarity on the Brexit negotiations. It has never been set in stone, there has never been a date set. Because TM's Brexit negotiation timetable has been all over the place since day one.

Gosh Trixy, you're going heavy on the exclamation marks there, are you not?

Trying to express my exasperation at your utter delusion.

Anyway, congratulations at your "win" last week. Did you celebrate the result? You must be ecstatic what with the triple lock now in place, roll on indyref2, independence must be just around the corner.....

Yes, dear. Do you feel better now?

I know, I'm supposed to be crushed and all my dreams 'dead and buried'. I'm sorry to disappoint.