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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Original poster

What's going wrong with Scottish education??

518 replies

TinfoilHattie · 10/05/2017 12:31

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39856284

Obviously very tempting to start another SNP bashing thread and I'm pretty clear that the blame for this lies at their door. It's shocking that performance is getting worst, not better and that less than half of S2s are performing well or very well in writing. It's all very well Swinney standing up and saying that it's not good enough but WHY is it not good enough and WHAT is he going to do about it?

Is it Curriculum for Excellence? Are the tests unrealistic? Funding? Changing expectations?

It's all very interesting for me as I have children in P4, P7 and S2 and those are the years which are tested. My kids are doing fine and I have no worries about them, but we're a family which values education and encourages reading. I do worry though about my daughter who spelled her new school as "Acadmay" and it wasn't corrected by the teacher. Confused

So what's going wrong and how do we put it right?

OP posts:
titsbumfannythelot · 14/05/2017 16:08

Just watched Andrew marr show, not the best performance.

derxa · 14/05/2017 16:24

It has no rigour. Tests are non-existent so a pupil may go from age 3-16 without having any checks and balances beyond teacher judgement about how they are doing. That is the problem. Although English SATs are the very devil there is a huge focus on maths and literacy.
One teacher I helped would print the LI and LO on labels and stick them in the jotters. Much more efficient but I bet she ended up buying those labels herself. You can just give the children paper LI and LOs and they stick them in. The most time consuming thing is child evaluation of success criteria and giving next steps.

Arkadia · 14/05/2017 19:35

Just watched NS on the AM's show.
Well, now I can sleep soundly in the knowledge that my kids will be fine...

QueenLaBeefah · 14/05/2017 19:49

As someone whose child is sitting Nat 5 at the moment the whole thing is an utter omni-shambles. I wouldn't vote SNP (again) if you held a gun to my head just on the disaster they have made over the whole education debacle alone.

DanyellasDonkey · 14/05/2017 22:13

Also just watched NS on Andrew Marr. So the GTC has approved an increase in the numbers being accepted for teacher training. And what are we meant to do in the intervening 4 years it takes them to complete this training? Oh yes - they're trying to encouraged retired teachers back into the classroom. Why the hell do you think they retired?

dementedma · 14/05/2017 22:15

SNAP are not being called to account on education. It is devolved, the blame lies firmly at their door!

cdtaylornats · 15/05/2017 08:45

Schools no longer have libraries - 40% of primaries and no libraries, 99% no librarian.

The SNP have reacted to bad education stories in their favourite way by getting rid of the monitoring of numeracy and literacy. You can't say its failing if they don't know the numbers.
www.scotsman.com/news/education/concern-over-decision-to-axe-key-scots-pupil-survey-1-4444645

You can't criticise the SNP on privatising the health service because they don't know what they spent

www.scottishlabour.org.uk/blog/entry/the-snp-dont-know-how-much-they-have-spent-on-outsourcing-in-our-nhs

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 15/05/2017 09:10

Just watched the Marr interview, and I was disappointed with the easy ride she was given, particularly wrt her 'compromise Brexit proposal' that was completely unworkable but was still given substantial consideration despite her spin.

Looking forward to the Andrew Neil interview next week. He doesn't tend to pull his punches.

WankersHacksandThieves · 15/05/2017 09:17

Oh is she going on Andrew Neil? Whilst I'm sure he is a twat in real life. I luffs him for his savagery and taking no prisoners attitude. Can't wait.

Arkadia · 15/05/2017 09:17

@you, agree. We need AN to get some info out. AM tries his best, but wasn't good enough (almost like education in Scotland...)
@cd I knew about the scrapping of the current survey. I wonder what the spin/ reasoning behind it is.

HamletsSister · 15/05/2017 10:16

Anyone use twitter? I would love Andrew Neil to ask her about the class size thing in S1 and S2 - why it was quietly changed so that pupils in Maths and English are now back to classes of up to 33 when Labour reduced it to maximum 20.

It seems to me this question needs to be asked but I don't use twitter so can't get it out there!

NoLotteryWinYet · 15/05/2017 10:24

i also can't believe the SNP can just get away with pulling Scottish students out of 2 more international assessments after the PISA bad news, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with this, as well as the SSLN.

There will be no continuity - the SNP setting up new tests means they won't be backwards comparable, so the current low basis will be the new norm.

whistlerx · 15/05/2017 11:02

Queen - can you give some specifics of what you have been unhappy about in your child's education? And any advice to the rest of us on how to do the best for your child in this situation? My child currently in S1, and I am feeling worried. It has been a year which has rather felt like her being on holiday - she has found school so un-taxing, and has almost never had any homework. I'm giving her some work to do, but I'm too busy to do this properly, and she doesn't respond to me as she would to a teacher setting homework. She was at primary in England, bog standard primary, and has noticed that the Scottish children seem to be behind academically. Almost all the maths she has done this year is stuff that she had already done in primary.

trixymalixy · 15/05/2017 11:23

Nolottery, that's the most shocking thing about this for me. It's clear there has been a decline in Scottish education, but rather than do something about it, the SNP prefer to withdraw from international comparisons?!?!

I don't normal watch any politics on TV, but I may make an exception for Andrew Neil interviewing Sturgeon. He is not a fan of Sturgeon and she has shied away from being interviewed by him before.

JigsawJim · 15/05/2017 11:35

whistlerx - do you have any examples of the maths in S1 that your daughter had already covered?
I worry about the level of maths being taught in the last 2 years of primary - it seems to be a repeat of what has been covered so the ones lagging behind can catch up. But the ones that have already mastered it are not being pushed further.

QueenLaBeefah · 15/05/2017 11:38

My advice would be not to believe any of the feed back you get from the teachers.

And if you can afford it get tutors and have your children independently assessed.

whistlerx · 15/05/2017 11:42

Sorry, no. I have no idea of what she's doing, to be honest. I''ve had no info from the school, and have never witnessed her doing any maths homework. She did mention calculating area once, which she did in England a very long time ago. She says that everything in maths is at a very easy level. I have signed her up with the online Conquer Maths, but she would much prefer to be taught new maths, at the right speed for her, by a live teacher.
We know various French and German children, and their schools are so much more academic. More so than in England too I think. They do a lot of Latin. Apparently our children are too thick to do Latin.

whistlerx · 15/05/2017 11:46

From what people are saying, it sounds as though the education system is essentially corrupt. If you can't believe the heads, the teachers, etc. How will these children run Scotland in the future? All the more of an issue if Scotland is independent by then (which I anticipate will be the case - teaching children to think of Scotland as a separate country does seem to be done effectively).
I don't see how the Scottish universities can continue to maintain their high reputation? Surely they will be starting to downgrade standards?

NoLotteryWinYet · 15/05/2017 11:46

The fact that Sturgeon is happy to write off the measurements from last 10 years of SNP education policy shows a massive lack of faith in her own education policy - she's giving up on being able to prove that the SNP's education policy has improved things across time including the last 10 years.

All she can effectively say going forward is that the SNP have met goals on the assessments they are establishing - it's like my daughter telling me she's met targets she set herself.

It should worry everyone with children in education here that the SNP are having to invent their own new assessments now with which to track their progress, rather than using established surveys, it's a massive indictment of what the SNP believe they can achieve.

scottishdiem · 15/05/2017 11:49

I think there is also a large number of parents for whom the educational attainment of their children doesnt mean much so they arent challenged at home.

My gran (who got a scholarship to a good school but had to move as her father was a farm laborer who moved for work) really really valued education. My father left school at 15 but worked and continued to pass workplace exams and got to a level of seniority. My mother was a teacher until she had me. My sibling and I had constant support and drive to do well at school. Many of my contemporaries at school also had parents that valued education and a pride in the Scottish education system. I think losing that drive and ambition of our parents and grandparents is a key problem.

whistlerx · 15/05/2017 11:54

Why has that drive and ambition gone?
I do find people here more relaxed and uncritical about education, just assuming all is and will be well, the main thing being that their child is having a nice time.

Arkadia · 15/05/2017 11:55

When is Sturgeon supposed to be interviewed by Andrew Neil? Can find no info in the matter.

trixymalixy · 15/05/2017 11:56

i think it's on the 25th Arkadia.

Arkadia · 15/05/2017 13:28

Thanks. Good to know. ;)

BelleTheSheepdog · 15/05/2017 13:37

Is their maths setted whistler? Tbh with the school here that was at the one feedback loop in the first 3 years of BGE. But of course that being only performance relative to the class.