George's Mingin Medicine as theclassreader - why, exactly??

[SirChenjin]

Apart from the SNP'S obsession with all things Scoa'ish obviously . We don't speak like that, none of our friends or family do, I don't understand the majority of the words and have no idea how to pronounce them - so when I listen to him reading I haver no idea of what he's saying is correct and then have to sign his readi g record. They would have been better giving him a book written in Mandarin - far more relevant and about as understandable to 99% of his class.

If you gave your 9 year old a 100-page book of the Jabberwocky, how long would it be before they completely switched off, do you think? There's a vast difference between a 20ish line poem and a book of words which don't flow and which don't mean anything (or mean very little).

I've already said upthread whirlie - "A short poem to teach them how to sound out words, infer meaning and so on is fine. 100 pages full of unfamiliar words (which have little or no context unless you understand the rest of them) is not fine"

Unto is like "uncommonly" so it can mean both strange and very.

Unco ffs.

:-)

dexra, what's happened is that there are now areas in the city where ordinary people just can't afford to live any more, there are hardly any locals around and you'll struggle to even find a posh Scottish accent never mind someone who genuinely speaks or at least uses Scots.

I know - it's become all fucking multicultural. The bastards.

Edinburgh - being the seat of the Scottish Govt and all - has become expensive as a result. A bit like London, only not quite so much - although certain areas of Edinburgh have always been a bit pricey and outwith the reach of many ordinary folk.

Just a tad racist there Mawbroon.

I only understood Neb from your list and I use it all the time. Haven't a scoobie about the rest. And I'm Scottish and from a working class background.

That poem looks like there are spaces missing between lots of the words. I know it's supposed to sound like a child speaking but I don't get half of it.

Has Scots been recognised as a distinct language rather than a dialect? I know there was some debate about that a few years ago.

I had assumed these books were supposed to be treated as accessible introductions to Scots using texts children were already likely to be familiar with. I'd have liked to have done some actual Scots poetry at school but then I grew up in an area where the local dialect basically is Scots and the words quoted above were normal vocab for my dad and my granny. My brother read "A man's a man for a' that" at my dad's funeral. It's a beautiful poem but some sections must be incomprehensible to many which is a shame.

I was in Morningside twice today and there were Scottish people (me! Though I might not count with my English mother). In fact, I was in Morningside library twice today. With my Waitrose free coffee. I don't think I could have been more "Middle Class Central Belt" if I tried and I understand the text. Do I get a prize?

There's an audio version of Lament for a Lost Dinner Ticket on youtube

I agree it's better when you hear it - although there was a fair amount I didn't understand and had to listen to it a few times to try and make sense of it. Again, though, if that 30ish lines of poetry was actually 100 pages of text it wouldn't be quite so funny (imo).

Has Scots been recognised as a distinct language rather than a dialect? I know there was some debate about that a few years ago.

Yes. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Charter_for_Regional_or_Minority_Languages

Yes Eddie you do - and the prize is a free Skype call to my son for the next 7.5 weeks where you get to listen to him reading Geordie's Minging Medicine twice a week (or more, depending on how his attention span is) and explain what the words mean as he goes along so that he understands what the hell it's all about.

No need to thank me - really

There's an audio version of Lament for a Lost Dinner Ticket

Thanks for the link That was really good - even English me understood it!

You are most welcome

On my trawl for the translation I came across this page. Apparently the Scots for the English "Christmas and New Year's greetings" (yeah, 'cos that's what the English say ) is "Blythe yuil an a Happy New Year". Now, I don't know about you, but in all my years of living and working up here I have never heard anyone say that!

I can do better than that, Sir - I can lend you my beautiful copy of the Scots Gallovidian Encyclopedia. Better take up my offer quick, I sense a stampede

You're right - it should be a guid Ne'er. ;-)

The point is also, that Scots words and language is not universal across (or indeed exclusive to) Scotland.

I'd never heard the word "ginger" to describe juice until I was an adult although I grew up in a rough council estate, because I didn't live in Glasgow. Equally my DH had no clue what my Mum was talking about when she asked him to stick something on the bunker. He's from the Borders.

So, giving a child a book of Scots vernacular that isn't from the area that he lives in is just the same as handing him a book full of cornish words, it isn't the language that he hears spoken around him (or would have been spoken around him). I'm not saying that it might not be interesting, but only when they are at a point where they are able to distinguish and understand where the language comes from.

Writing a book in a mishmash of generally Scots words is a bit weird, writing a book in glaswegian or doric or whatever isn't so much.

Tempting though that offer is Eddie I think it only fair to pass on the biweekly honour of listening to him reading the words in a staccato-like manner in between complaining bitterly that he hasn't got a clue what it's about and he's borrrrrrrrrredddddddddd . So - when are you free?

Come off it whirlie - there is no way you say "Blythe yuil an a guid Ne'er"

Francis, I'm usually to be found in WR after 2pm, trawling the yellow labels so if you're around then you're sure to bump into me eventually. Just don't try to get to a packet of 45p free range sausages before me, ye besom.