George's Mingin Medicine as theclassreader - why, exactly??

[SirChenjin]

Apart from the SNP'S obsession with all things Scoa'ish obviously . We don't speak like that, none of our friends or family do, I don't understand the majority of the words and have no idea how to pronounce them - so when I listen to him reading I haver no idea of what he's saying is correct and then have to sign his readi g record. They would have been better giving him a book written in Mandarin - far more relevant and about as understandable to 99% of his class.

To me (east coast push not old enough to have a granny who spoke Scots) it's very very similar to reading Shakespeare (makes sense out loud). In fact to me makes more sense than Shakespeare out loud as it sounds familiar in accent and cadence.

Posh. Not push.

Anyway, if it was really in Scots he'd be called Dod like every other Scottish George .

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but that other extract was perfectly understandable too.

I grew up around people speaking Scots. It is still relevant in my life.

Is it just Scots you have a problem with OP? Would you complain for example if you lived in, say, Yorkshire and a reading book came home in the local dialect?

Check out Bletherin Scots on BBC education If you want to find out a bit more - some young people enjoy using Scots in an educational setting. I've used it in class and the pupils loved seeing Naveed from Still Game and thinking about words they want to use but think they'll be told off for. I also discuss context though.

I can read that extract perfectly well too. I just feel it's contrived. I use minging, drookit, crabbit etc in day to day speech.

Also have a look at Tom Leonard's "This is the Six O'clock News" . Who decides what sounds right?

I'm not disappointed at all - why would I be?

If I lived in an area where the local dialect wasn't spoken and he came home with Roald Dahl translated into that dialect - and that book was the one which was to be read at home and signed by parents before it was heard by the teacher each week then I would feel exactly the same - but interestingly, the non-Nationalist Govt down south doesn't push this nonsense.

Spot on pronunciation

Mingin' isn't a direct translation of Marvellous though is it?

I could understand more having a performance or audiobook in the dialect, but writing in it seems a bit strange - isn't it quite unlikely the children will ever write in dialect?

Contrived...that's the word I've been looking for. I'm all for him learning Scottish words but I want him exposed to great literature at school as well as at home - not just something which has been translated into a dialect for the sake of it and which diminishes the original text as a result.

They might well do for creative writing at Nat 5 and Higher if it added authenticity to a character Polkadot. Also recognising the use and impact of colloquialism often comes up in RUAE papers.

So, how far from your area do you have to go to find people who speak and understand Scots? do you live in Morningside

The disappointed comment is to Angels who originally quoted a "more accessible" extract

Don't know the book, so can't comment.

I do however remember struggling initially with the Scots used in Sunset Song when studying it for Higher English (c40 years ago, so nothing to do with the SNP ) - even though I believe it was a simplified form of the language. I did however get used to it and to learn to love the book and went out off my own bat to read the other two books in the trilogy.

Ds is currently studying "The Cone Gatherers" as his Scottish text for his Higher and hating it. He sees it as an inferior version of "Of Mice and Men" which he studied last year.

I grew up in the south of England and I understood it all. Read these a bit slower than usual though. I found it was really easy to do a Scottish accent, ás the shape of the words guide you!
Must be enjoyable for kids with that accent to have it mirrored back to b then for a change.

OP is Bairnsang by Liz Lochead nonsense and pish too?

www.ayecan.com/read_scots/liz_lochhead.html

Not a fan of The Cone Gatherers myself Prettybird . Made the mistake of abbreviating to CGs (apparently that is something very different ) From a teaching point of view the imagery smacks them in the face and questions have been a doddle. But an inferior Of Mice and Men, which I'll teach till they prise it out my gnarled hand, I 'd love to chat to your DA about that indeed .

I got to about line 7 of that poem and switched off because I didn't understand it. There are so many good (and more accessible) poems out there which don't require you to have knowledge of a specific dialect and to have to refer to a dictionary as you read.

It's a shame you didn't read the whole poem.

Which poem - the Lochead or Leonard?

Scots is a language.

Do Swedish people say Norwegian is a dialect of Swedish? Just because there's overlap doesn't make Scots not legitimate. There are lots of speakers of Scots in the Central Belt. surprised to see you describe the Central Belt as "middle class". Surely all areas of the country are socially mixed, and the Central Belt has never had a reputation for being predominantly middle class.

The passage you quoted is easy to read and makes sense. There's only one word that I don't use in it, though I probably wouldn't speak so many Scots words concentrated together. I haven't read the rest of the book but if this is typical I think it is fine.

I think most competent teachers can, when needed, help children with code switching between their spoken language and the standard English required for formal settings and written work. Most people do this without being explicitly taught. I actually think teaching Scots works helps children to understand the differences. My wee girl is reading "A dug, a dug" in class at the moment. The other day she was scared by a dog and I said "never mind, it's just a wee dug". And she said "oh Mummy, you were speaking Scottish there".

This isn't a party political issue. It's a matter of saying let's not diminish our culture, let's be enriched by prizing, sharing, exploring and enjoying language.

You know what. If there were parents chatting about the book as homework and somebody said that they were struggling with it because it's not familiar, I would offer to help their kid with it.

But somebody whinging about it and saying it was nonsense?? Forget it.

The Lochead one.

That's why it's important to be inclusive and accessible when you're writing whirlie - people tend to switch off otherwise, unless they are very determine to read what you've written and think you worthy of their time.

And of course there is no middle ground between posh English and dead, and Liz's Saltire-flying writing

It's so contrived!

I'd really rather they just read stuff in the way it was written. That would be relevant. This is just... needy.

I would be careful about complaining too much about it. After all they could change it to Milly, Molly bloody Mandy. Never before have I felt the desire to burn a book.

It might be middle class people promoting increased use of Scots texts, but I guarantee you that they are popular with disengaged learners who find less familiar language a turn off. The translated George's Marvellous Medicine is perhaps a bit stilted but there are some great, more natural texts and poems out there.