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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Guardians for all children

162 replies

HazyMazy · 26/03/2016 08:18

I don't normally follow Scottish politics, just Westminster, however was watching the mid day prog, First Ministers questions, on tv lately.

I was wondering how the Guardian for every child in Scotland, legislation passed by the SnP in 2014, went down with Scottish mums.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11221902/Legal-fight-starts-over-SNP-state-guardian-for-every-child.html

It seems a crazy idea, though well meaning, and had I been a mum of young DCs at the time would have been incensed.
Was there an outcry at the time? I don't think the law has been removed.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 28/03/2016 21:32

Granted thegovt can track most of what you do already
I don't agree with all my data being shared between lots of different parties

Given both governments demonstrable incompetence when it comes to large scale IT projects, I can't see any meaningful level of data sharing between systems happening any time soon Grin

cdtaylornats · 28/03/2016 21:53

Given all governments proven capabilities in losing data I would want the Government to indemnify everyone against id theft. I also think a named minister should be personally responsible for ensuring data security.

Natsku · 29/03/2016 06:08

I quite like having my personal identification number connected to my data. I like that when I see a new doctor they can check my medical history using my number, I like that I can check my own medical history (no need to ask GP to send me notes or pay any money, I can check my records any time I want online), I like that I just need to show my social security card whenever I need to access a government provided service and they get the relevant information they need (address, right to social security, etc.) so no need to prove I live somwhere by bringing in electric bills and things like that. Its a lot less hassle. And I can check what information is stored about me any time I like online.

But I do trust my Government not to be incompetent fools so that is rather different Grin

OneMagnumisneverenough · 29/03/2016 07:59

Do you live in North Korea Natsku?

cdtaylornats · 29/03/2016 08:15

And I can check what information is stored about me any time I like online.

No you can check what you are allowed to. And so can anyone else who gets hold of your access code. I expect there is a thriving business in fake social security cards.

It has always been an anathema in the UK to think some official could come up to us in the street and say "Your papers please".

Natsku · 29/03/2016 09:01

No, I live in Finland, a very nice country actually :)

Accessing things online requires using your internet banking codes so unless you're careless enough to give those out that's not an issue. There is an issue though with someone getting your social security number and using it to order something online asking for a bill instead of paying by credit card (happened to my friend's sister) but that can be sorted by showing that you don't live at the address the fraudster ordered to.

True I can't check certain information that's stored about me just by looking online, for instance I need to make a formal request to see information the police have on me and if the Governmental Secret Service type people have anything on me I'm sure I'll never see that but don't think they're too interested in me Grin

Have not heard of any problems with fake social security cards, they would be very hard to fake as they have barcodes on them.

peggyundercrackers · 29/03/2016 09:01

Natsku you are the fool for trusting govt.

Yes you can do all those things with your security no. But as an example would you like hmrc get access to your GP records?

Below is some information about what SNP want to store on the card... Its not just a simple case of using it to identify your address so you don't have to produce a copy of your bank statement - I'm astounded at your naivety and your lack of concern about privacy if all you worry about is carrying a bit of paper to prove where you live. I wonder how banks, insurance companies, medical companies etc. Would act if they got their hands on all this information about you and your family. How much is that data worth? No govt ever will have as much information about the population as the SNP will do about population of Scotland.

The Data Sharing and Linking Service (DSLS) is on track to begin operating by December – despite the vast majority of the public being unaware of the plans.

At the heart of the enterprise is the Linking Population Spine, which will hold “the name, date of birth, gender and postcode for everyone in Scotland”.

According to NHS Research Scotland, this will boast “cradle to grave” health records, including maternity, mental health, cancer, GP and dental notes.

The new education, childhood and parenting profiles highlighted will also be stored.

Following our original exposé, the Engage for Education quango stated categorically: “There is no national central database – this is a myth.”

However, the DSLS – which is clearly NOT a myth – will also include social care, housing and justice statistics, as well as information from the 2011 Scottish Census.

The Census had questions on areas such as financial and salary details, religious and sexual orientation, relationships and family life.

According to minutes of meetings of the “Data Linkages Operations Group”, the hoard will even include details of “vulnerable children” and “genomics” – or DNA records.

peggyundercrackers · 29/03/2016 09:21

Sorry forgot to say they have already said they will sell the data for research purposes.

Natsku · 29/03/2016 09:36

Different departments can only access data related to their department. For instance medical data is stored in an online database which doctors can access using their access cards and then use the patients identification number but anyone outside of the medical area cannot access that information because they don't have medical access cards. Only the social security office can view information relating to social security matters (i.e. benefits) as they have their own database and same with the welfare office. I have no reason to mistrust the government.

The information stored on the national population register is not anything that I would be uncomfortable with anyone seeing (name, D.O.B, gender, marital status, nationality, children and guardianship, address and previous addresses and place of birth) and anyone can order that their information isn't disclosed to anyone except for the authorities.

That DSLS thing however seems to be about linking data to make research and statistics easier, not about making things easier for people so not the same thing (and not good in my opinion)

AndNowItsSeven · 29/03/2016 09:41

Yes because hackers don't exist Natsku?

Natsku · 29/03/2016 09:51

Hackers are a whole other issue which should not mean moving away from internet databases but improving security. Some authorities have woefully inadequate data security and if they would actually listen to the hackers about how to improve security then things could improve. My brother is, allegedly, a hacker so I know that many are actually trying to help but they are being ignored.

peggyundercrackers · 29/03/2016 10:11

Natsku nothing which is online is secure - absolutely nothing. I work in the industry and have done for coming up for 20yrs, I see vulnerabilities time and time again. There is no software which is secure - you can try and make it secure but unfortunately it never is.

cdtaylornats · 29/03/2016 10:30

Finland says government's data network hit by severe hacking

www.reuters.com/article/net-us-finland-hacking-idUSBRE99U0ZL20131031

Glad you feel you can trust them.

In Finland, identity theft is not against the law.

As of September, police have recorded more than 8,000 identity theft reports. The figure is slightly higher than for the same time in previous years. For example, for all of 2013, some 9,400 reports of identity theft were filed.

All safe and secure

Natsku · 29/03/2016 11:05

They can certainly do more to improve security. The hacking incident here highlighted that need which they should have realised before. I still don't worry though.

Identity theft is illegal now actually, and using someone else's identity to commit fraud or misrepresent them has always been illegal.

Natsku · 29/03/2016 11:10

And identity theft is a problem in the UK and can be committed with as little as a date of birth. And apparently just stealing someone's identity isn't illegal in the UK either.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 29/03/2016 11:21

Identity theft can't be committed with just a date of birth - whose identity would you be stealing?

Natsku · 29/03/2016 11:29

"Criminals can even use seemingly harmless pieces of information, such as your date of birth, to commit identity theft. Many companies in the United Kingdom will ask you for your date of birth as part of their verification process, so getting hold of your date of birth may enable a criminal to access other information about you"

www.identitytheft.org.uk

cdtaylornats · 29/03/2016 11:31

It's never safe online, and conglomerating everything into one database the way the SNP plan to is a recipe for disaster.

Natsku · 29/03/2016 11:38

I agree that the DSLS plan is a recipe for disaster and shouldn't be done, no argument there!

OneMagnumisneverenough · 29/03/2016 11:45

Yes Natsku but you said only a date of birth - a date of birth is only a random date unless you also know the persons name. DP procedures vary from company to company but generally require more than just a date of birth to go with a full name such as the address etc. If they have suspicions they can also ask for further details such as the payments made, premiums, pin codes, the answers to previously set up questions. Despite all this things can and do go wrong and people lose all sorts of info/money etc. That's why having things linked makes it worse. If I was hacked, they may be able to use data to empty my bank account but they wouldn't be able to get my children's school records or my employment history or my medical history or use my credit card.

OneMagnumisneverenough · 29/03/2016 11:47

though I am sure they could have some fun with my Direct Debit list.

Natsku · 29/03/2016 11:52

As little as a date of birth meaning as little personal information as a date of birth, names generally not being hidden info, and a date of birth is a lot easier to find out than a personal identification number.

blaeberry · 29/03/2016 11:53

I am very much against the named person scheme. I have a dc with SEN/ASN and like many parents in similar situations I feel he is not getting the support he should be. The person who dictates his support is his named person. My dc is my absolute priority. The named person cannot give my dc the same priority; she has several hundred other children in the school to consider. As such she quite simply cannot fight my dc corner even if she wanted to.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/03/2016 13:03

But I do trust my Government

It's a great thing to be able to trust your government Smile Interestingly the Scottish Government is the most trusted in Europe (even more than Finland!)

stv.tv/news/politics/1347185-scottish-government-most-trusted-government-in-europe/

As your posts show though trusting your government doesn't mean you don't question them Grin

Natsku · 29/03/2016 13:12

You wouldn't believe they were the most trusted judging by this thread! Grin