Guardians for all children

[HazyMazy]

I don't normally follow Scottish politics, just Westminster, however was watching the mid day prog, First Ministers questions, on tv lately.

I was wondering how the Guardian for every child in Scotland, legislation passed by the SnP in 2014, went down with Scottish mums.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11221902/Legal-fight-starts-over-SNP-state-guardian-for-every-child.html

It seems a crazy idea, though well meaning, and had I been a mum of young DCs at the time would have been incensed.
Was there an outcry at the time? I don't think the law has been removed.

And that the Named Person has no new legal rights over the child.

Is this the poll? I think this is the one you are referring to as it mentions the Christian Institute, which is also referred to in the newspaper reports. Data was weighted to be representative of UK population??? Not really relevant for a Scottish poll regarding a scottish issue, especially when the scottish political landscape is so unlike that of the rest of the uk. Havent actually digested all the info in it yet, other than to look on Page 42 where it asks It is right for every child to be assigned a Named Person to monitor their wellbeing, whether their parent(s) wants one or not and it clearly states that only 91 Scottish people disagreed. Which is not even close to being 75% of the Scottish population Tory msm at their best/worst.

I think this www.comres.co.uk/polls/christian-institute-childrens-wellbeing-survey/ is it harrassed. If that's not the right one it may not have been published. Whilst I accept that newspapers can stretch the truth, I don't think they are actually lying about the poll results.

I see that wingsoverscotland has some sort of story on this - I didn't click the link just saw what came up in Google search - not a reliable news source in my opinion.

Harassed I'm sure nearly everyone looks like a decent fairly average normal loving parent but as we all know looks count for nothing.

that must be the right poll then as it was carried out by Comres. Couldnt find any reference to 532 Scottish respondents voting being against Named Person. Can you clarify that further or can we call bs on that figure and 75% of Scotland?

Well, in most cases it counts for bringing up your children in a stable loving household. Is there an abundance of decent fairly average normal parents being taken to court and charged for false child abuse allegations? Im not aware of any, but im sure there must be people who work in these circles who can confirm?

Sorry Anthony, I should have had your back there. I'm just overly suspicious of some of the posters too so declined to continue posting on the thread. Even the username is suspicious - you'd have thought a quick name change was warranted...

AntonyBlanche

You do remember that the SNP were the biggest opponents of ID cards when New Labour wanted them? And are you aware that they're openly questioning the legality of the new Snooper's Charter? The SNP are the only serious political force in the UK opposing Orwellian policies! Really, you're worrying about the wrong policy and the wrong party. If you want a State with less, not more, State snooping you should be supporting Scottish Independence and voting SNP.

As for your figure of £61m for 3000 kids - well, that's an up front cost for a long-term system. If 3000 kids are protected over the next ten years that cuts a huge swathe out of long-term prison costs, MH care costs, cost to the economy through MH issues ect etc. Victims of child abuse cost a great deal of money to support throughout their life.

Taken from a (fairly) recent MoJ report:

Many prisoners had experienced abuse (29%) or observed violence in the home (41%) as a child – particularly those who stated that they had a family member with an alcohol or drug problem. Those who reported experiencing abuse or observing violence as a child were more likely to be reconvicted in the year after release than those who did not.

It costs £40k to house a prisoner for a year. You can see how the scheme, if succesfull, could potentially save us money.

I didn't think we were arguing, just discussing, and I do want to know where it says the Named Person can make medical decisions because that would be very wrong. Sorry if I bothered you asking questions.

Sample size was 44 actual parents in Scotland (happy to be corrected if you can point me to the raw data). Hardly representative.

Harassed/natsku read the below section, your child has a corporate parent, in fact read the whole of section 9 not just section 56 & 58 within section 9.

www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2014/8/section/56/enacted

www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2014/8/section/58/enacted - under this section look at 1 e ii - to take such action as it considers appropriate to help those children and young people— to make use of services, and access support, which it provides.

The above tells me the named person, who is the corprorate parent, can take your child to the doctor without consulting you or ever letting you know they have done that.

no, am definitely not Nicola Sturgeon. Im not arguing with you, merely conversing. The recent poll was brought up in this thread (not by me i may add) and I have asked for clarification on the figures. When none were forthcoming Ive went and looked them up for myself and gave a link just in case this was the wrong poll that I was looking at (although I dont think it is). I think if you are to claim that 75% of Scotland opposes the named person scheme you should have figures/data to back that up. Personally i think the media have fudged this poll result (have still no idea where they got the figure of 532 from) and having asked on this thread has now resulted in you not wanting to speak to me?

The only policies the SNP have is 1. independance at any cost and 2. whatever will get them the most votes at the time. If they thought there was votes in ID cards they'd be for them.

I think that the full comres poll results may not be available yet, hence the apparent disparity in numbers of respondents.

Anthony the way the poll works is that the polling company (in this case COMRES) does the actual polling, the gathering of data. The specifications of the poll, and the questions are entirely down to the body that commissioned the poll. A meaningful poll will be very carefully written to ensure that we far as possible the order and the content of the questions does not in any way encourage a particular response. This particular poll is an excellent example of poll designed to an elicit a particular response, the questions and accompanying "background" are far from neutral.

I find it curious that pretty much any charity/group working with children seems to support the legislation?

Finally, on the subject of Wings, while his posting style is not to many tastes, his posts are always very well supported by references so that you can track down and interpret sources for yourself. I wish other political sites were as well referenced

Intheprocess the SNP are actively pursuing a plan for an ID database in Scotland, I don't possibly see how they could oppose plans for a cheese in the uk

politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/03/30/how-the-snp-plans-to-secretly-introduce-id-cards

Itsallgoingtobefine other charities support it because they are getting funding from SNP to work within their framework - several charities have already received funding because of the legislation - it was reported in the heral last week or the week before.

As for wings - what a waste of space.

Peggy Corporate Parents are for looked after children, not every child.

Nope they tell you corporate parents are the people named in section 4 - section 4 is the named persons section.

Also don't understand the concern about ID cards, lots of countries have ID cards or personal identification numbers issued at birth (have the latter in my country)

Peggy "Corporate Parenting is defined in the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 as: “the formal and local partnerships between all services responsible for working together to meet the needs of looked after children, young people and care leavers”."

Looked after children, not all children. Corporate Parents aren't the same thing as a Named Person.

personal identification numbers issued at birth (have the latter in my country)

We have that here too, sort of. Everyone has a CHI number that is issued at birth, this is used to keep track of all of your medical stuff. At 16 everyone is issued with a national insurance number which is required for work/pensions/benefits.

Granted thegovt can track most of what you do already however I don't agree with the ID card - which btw the consultation has already taken place www.gov.scot/Resource/0046/00464862.pdf

I don't agree with all my data being shared between lots of different parties with no legislation in place to protect it. SNP are leaving the data guarding rules to the individual organisations - there is no over arching legislation to protect the data - which means to me it's a half baked idea.

Natsku sorry your correct re. Corporate parenting, I had misunderstood what I had read.

I had to read it a couple of times to be sure what it meant Peggy, easy to misunderstand it.