The vitriol for SAHPs on this site is insane

[JustSoFrustrated]

So many insisting it “isn’t work” and that we’re lazy, calling us “leeches” on our spouses, saying that “housework doesn’t take that long” and assuming we’re either “faffing about” or filling our time with made-up work or leisure activities…

Honestly, I wish they could all take a turn doing what I do each day and see if they still think it isn’t work or that it only takes “two hours max” daily to keep the house running—Someone told me that it only takes 20 minutes to hoover the entire house! I was like, I could do maybe one room in 20 minutes. Are they not picking things up off the floor first or moving furniture?? It also makes me imagine that their homes are TINY, and that they don’t have much of a garden, or at least not one that’s their responsibility to maintain. They also all have older, more independent children and seem to have forgotten how much supervision and assistance young children need, and how much of a mess they make constantly.

Someone else was like, “It takes five minutes per meal to do the dishes,” and I thought, what the hell are they feeding their kids? Maybe if you microwave cans of soup, or pop a tray of chicken nuggets in the oven on a single sheet pan, or boil pasta in one pot and then dump a jar of sauce over it… And that’s fine to do every once in a while, but not for every meal. If you’re actually cooking cooking— you know, chopping fruits and veggies, working with meat, cooking different components to a meal in the way they taste best, serving them on real dishes, with real cutlery to eat with… Dishes are gonna take you more than 5 minutes per meal, even with a dishwasher (Unless they’re just popping their dishes and cookware in without rinsing them off at all?? In which case I’m assuming their dishwashers are rank inside!)

And when you explain to them, this is how much work I have to do, and how much time it takes me, they either start concluding you’re “plodding around”/doing it inefficiently/incorrectly, or they’ll start suggesting that you downsize your life so that you’re less busy… presumably so you can get “a real job.” But that’s totally not the point; why would I make it so my family has a less enjoyable or less luxurious life, and see my DC less, just so I can go to work to make money that we don’t really need?

I’m tempted to just start insisting to WOHP that their houses must be disgustingly dirty and that they’re obviously cleaning wrong if it takes them so little time… or that they’re “faffing around” at work all day, because obviously if families with SAHP can live comfortably on one income, then their work must be really inefficient…

But that wouldn’t be reasonable, would it?

You are going to get so much hate, OP 😬 Which, ironically, proves your point (with which I completely agree, by the way).

I've been on here a long time too. I have seen some vitriol towards SAHPs over the years, and I don't dispute that it exists. However, I have seen far more threads started by SAHPs who are complaining about vitriol and/or who insist that their roles deserve more recognition from society etc, and most of the negative comments that I've seen over the years have tended to be made in response to such posts...often when WOHPs are themselves feeling under attack because of vitriol aimed at them.

The OP is a good example of this. She makes a post that is ostensibly about vitriol towards SAHPs, which is actually full of vitriol towards WOHPs. Some people will inevitably respond to this with comments that some SAHPs will find offensive. And so it goes on. There is fault on both sides.

I honestly don't think many of us really give a shit what other women choose to do or how they choose to organise their domestic lives. We just want to be able to get on with our own choices without feeling judged, and for our dcs to grow up in a society in which they can do likewise.

@Bettycrocker7sounds like a normal day for a working or stay at home parent. Not lazy. Couldn’t your mum have taken leave to take you to doctors appointments? Job dependent of course.

I hope that your DH is suitably appreciative!

It's not just one extreme or the other; I work part time so feel I'm well placed to see both sides of the argument. Without a doubt my at home days are easier and less stressful than my work days. On work days I barely stop from the minute I get up till the minute I go to bed, and that's with the benefit of being able to do shopping and cleaning on my non-work days (with DC in tow). I can't imagine how difficult it must be to fit in all the chores and life admin on top of a full time job plus commute.

Being a SAHP can be very mentally draining at times but if you plan it well and involve your kids in chores where possible, it gives you more flexibility and freedom, I feel.

Proving a point that there is vitriol towards SAHPs by spouting vitriol towards WOHPs that you know will provoke a reaction probably says more about how human beings respond to unwarranted criticism and judgement than it says about what people actually think about SAHPs.

Annnnd this mindset is why (some) people don’t like SAHPs. Some (not all) SAHPs are like (some, not all) vegans - touting the ‘I’m better than you’ nonsense everywhere they go. Parents who work also bring up their children. Maybe differently from you, maybe with more help, but no adult I know who’s parents worked go ‘oh I was raised by a childminder!’

There are definitely lots like you describe, yes. It's painful to witness.

Not during work hours surely?

Maybe if you microwave cans of soup, or pop a tray of chicken nuggets in the oven on a single sheet pan, or boil pasta in one pot and then dump a jar of sauce over it… And that’s fine to do every once in a while, but not for every meal. If you’re actually cooking cooking— you know, chopping fruits and veggies, working with meat, cooking different components to a meal in the way they taste best, serving them on real dishes, with real cutlery to eat with…

Well, this was shitty.

I’ve never actually seen the vitriol towards SAHP from WOHP.

I guess it’s like the BF vs FF debate, where both parties feel the other is getting at them, get defensive and lash out.

All that needs to happen is women support women, whatever their choices, and we unite.

Instead of deeply unhelpful and nasty threads like this.

I've been on this site a long time...
The worst I saw was many years ago and compared sahms to prostitutes.
However, most posts I see point out how vulnerable sahms are if they aren't married to their children's father...which is true.
I like to think it's genuine concern, but I'm sure a minority like to feel superior because, well...that's just what some people are like 🤷‍♀️

I thought it was hilarious. Obviously, laughing as I drive my ‘Chilly Careerist’ Maserati to my corner office, casually waving to any children with nannies I pass in the street in case they might be mine, because, hey, one child looks kind of like another when you’re zooming up through the ranks and blowing your bonuses on childfree resorts in the Maldives, right?

That’s a really nasty post OP it comes across as very belittling to working mothers or indeed people who can stack a dishwasher and wash up a couple of pans in under 5 mins.
Im a nurse and supremely efficient at work and home. We have a 4 bed older house and it takes me 20 mins to hoover the whole house and mop it. Washing takes 10 mins a day to sort, washing up 5 mins a day. House is clean and tiny always- I work part time.
if you don’t want assumptions made about you don’t make them about other people. There’s no need for hoovering to take 20 mins per room!

Why would you assume that WOHPs feel guilty or that they would need to justify working to support their families? What do you think they should feel guilty about, exactly?

Honestly, this is the kind of smug statement from some SAHPs that provokes a negative reaction. It reflects an assumption that SAHPs are somehow doing a better job of being parents.

I never felt guilty about being a WOHP. Why would I have felt guilty, when my dd was happy and thriving? She is an adult now, and I have no regrets.

I honestly think this type of attitude is where a lot of the "vitriol" comes from. It's ignorant and it's annoying.

I’ve never seen anything negative about SAHPs with pre-school children. People who have been on maternity/paternity leave know that this can be really hard work. There are only (fair) comments about ensuring there is a financial plan should the couple split up.

I’ve seen a fair few comments about SAHPs with school age children which, though I’d probably use slightly less blunt language, make reasonable points about that being easier than going to work.

And it’s plain weird. It’s never occurred to me to feel a second’s guilt about having a career that I enjoy and that provides for my child. I’m not sure what people imagine I would feel guilty about…?

I’ve done both. SAHP and working parent. Being the SAHP was a piece of piss compared to doing all the stuff I did then, and working full time on top. But I didn’t live in a mansion like you OP.

There’s no need for hoovering to take 20 mins per room!

Depends how long it takes to fish the mini Slinky out of the hose.

But that is precisely @arcticpandas point: the vitriolic ones are the ones than project their own guilt.
If you are not feeling guilty/projecting it/being vitriolic, then obviously what she said doesn't apply to you. However, it is very obvious that this is the case for the more vociferous and hateful ones.

@JustSoFrustrated what ages are your children op???
I think it is very busy being a sahp to small kids but omg absolutes dream if they are in school!!! I was sort of a sahm when mine were small in that I totally worked around them and they didn’t go to childcare pre 3 years old. Honestly I find working so so so much harder and I’ve a fantastic dh (we’ve no family support however). My house definitely was tidier when I was a sahm and I was way more rested and that was with 3 young kids . I like my job but I’m honestly shocked at how hard it it to work and be a parent and my dcs are older 🤷‍♀️ Our house is always clean though and we cool from scratch as healthy food is so important. I respect all parents who do their best and I do think domestic work is v undervalued in general but @JustSoFrustrated you are forgetting that all mums know what it’s like to have kids at home and run a house , em…. Maternity, weekends, all the holidays ……

I haven't read the full thread but nonsense like this only fuels the divide and vitriol between working mum's and SAHM. You actually think anyone with a job just doesn't cook? Also people rolls their eyes when SAHM/housewives list every minute detail of a process they are doing that. Other people call the 5 step process you've listed below as 'cooking'

you know, chopping fruits and veggies, working with meat, cooking different components to a meal in the way they taste best, serving them on real dishes, with real cutlery to eat with

Completely agree. Why would I feel guilty for having a fulfilling career (ok, I am working towards retirement and a lot less motivated now) that has earned me enough to have my mortgage paid, private education and university fees fully funded and planning to retire in my 50s?

My kids have never complained about me being unavailable. I have been to every sports day and concert and plenty of their matches over the years. I They have had opportunities they would never have had if I had given up work.

Mum was the main breadwinner and dad worked nights, I don't know if she could of taken leave that's just how I remember it.

I have to agree with this, yes, fair point. I guess I understand where OP is coming from.

(Love your nickname, btw 🙌)