Will we regret leaving London?

[Townorcountrysideliving]

NC for this as don't want to be outed. We currently live in the less desirable bit of a nice part of SW London and the kids are in good primary schools.

For years, I have wanted to move out of London but apathy from the DH means we haven't. We are bursting at the seams of our current house, we are in the not so nice part of the bit of London we're in and our house is terraced so we can hear the neighborhood and vice versa through the walls and in the garden. We're all very respectful and get on but there is no privacy. This bothers me more than my DH. What I really crave is a bigger house and garden where I can park the car without a scrum, cleaner air, space, being somewhere quiet and countryside walks on my doorstep. As it is, we spend a lot of our time walking (when Covid restrictions allow) in the woods/countryside which is about 20-40min by car depending on where we head. Even before I had kids, I wasn't really benefitting from London living. Not bothered about bars or restaurants and trips to the theatre/museum reduced when I had kids and stopped completely with Covid. I don't miss it at all. If we could afford to move to a bigger place where we are now, we would. We can't though. We could move to the nicer part of where we are but wouldn't gain any extra space and DH says it's pointless to do this.

Pros of moving

• bigger house/garden
• less air and noise pollution
• kids 7+9 have space to run around in and currently enjoy running around in the woods and countryside
• can finally get a dog as I've told DH it wouldn't be fair to have a dog where we currently live due to lack of space (do-able and plenty do but I don't want to add a large dog to an already cramped house)
• my parents are elderly. Looking ahead, in the event one parent isn't around anymore, more space means the option to have the remaining parent move in with us so I can take care of them. We can't do that in the current house but could in a much bigger house so we aren't on top of each other.

Cons

• we are looking at places in Surrey as we often go walking there. Housing is expensive and seems to be in short supply though we'd still get more space than we have now.

• schools is the biggest headache. One child currently at at excellent and well regarded all through school. So, if we stayed in London, we don't have to worry about high school. The other child will likely have to attend a high school out of borough and get on a bus if we stay. Problem with Surrey is that good schools seem to be oversubscribed and secondary high schools don't seem to be as good as the ones we have where we are. This is my main worry. To leave and end up in schools not as good as what they have now/can have.

• we can't afford to move back. Staying in London will make internships much easier and staying at home for a year or two is an option if kids want to go to uni and London rental is too expensive.

• ease of access for kids. In a couple of years, the oldest can easily walk to school on his own in London.

• will the kids even want to be in the countryside in a couple of years? My DH grew up in a city and was very independent meeting his friends. I grew up in a small town where it was normal to walk to a bus stop and wait for an hourly bus into town to meet friends. That was normal for me.

• we both work so one of us would have a longer commute but DH is okay with this as he's also craving more space now and also loves country side walks. He's also desperate for a dog.

We've been looking for ages now and it feels like we're going round in circles. It would be a lot easier without the school issue. We started the search before the pandemic so this isn't a Covid move but certainly the option to WFH most of the week has made it more feasible to move out.

My question is - because of schools, should we just stay in a smaller house and where we are then plan to move when the youngest finishes high school? I feel my soul may die a little if we did that but if it's the right thing for the kids I'll do it. Will we regret moving? Have I idealised the move out of London? Once we move, we can't afford to come back!

Sorry the post is long and rambling. Thank you if you made it to the end. Would love to hear about any experiences others have had doing the same thing or any advice you might have. Thank you!

I think key consideration is the size of settlement you move too. There will always be a trade off on amenities vs space. I live in a large village and I have a better social life than I did when we lived in large towns. I can walk to the pub, to see friends, to the primary school. We have a small supermarket, 4 pubs and a very good recreation club that runs football, cricket, tennis, athletics and badminton, there's yoga and book clubs and even a small outdoor pool in the summer. We're an hour on the train from London, so just commuting distance. We have a good state secondary in the next town and a few private options.

Population of our village is 4,500 and it feels like a sweet spot, small enough to get to know people big enough for there to be things going on.

We're in Hampshire, and if the commute is bearable I'd look at it. Schools wise we have sixth form colleges rather than school sixth forms (think sussex do this too) and they're fantastic, because they have such large intake they offer a great choice of options and they get fantastic results too.

@snowgirl1

Personally, I think leafy suburbia is a good balance of the benefits of both. Commuting time to London isn't horrendous and the benefits of plenty of green space. Not many PPs seem to have mentioned commuting time - Godalming to London train is about 50 mins...if there are no delays. Factor in 15 mins to get to the station. Then 20-30 minutes to get to your work once you arrive in Waterloo - that's 1 hour 35 mins without delays. I live in Esher - Kingston is within easy reach and yet our house looks over fields. Best of both worlds.

I agree with this. Suburbs all the way for us too.

We are in Zone 6 so still in London. But no tube. Train into town is about 40 minutes, when it runs! But we both drive to our jobs as don't work in Central London thankfully. 2 major parks not far away. And lots of shops and take away places on our doorstep.

But the main pull for us is the lack of cultural diversity if we moved further out. Even some parts of Surrey that we have visited would probably make us stick out like a sore thumb 🤔

Buying immediately is risky, as you could lose your home in London and it might be expensive to try and buy back your old life.

We rented for two years before finding our home, and it gave us all a chance to decide whether it was for us.Buying houses is expensive.

If that's an option for you, I'd agree that this would be ideal. We recently sold our house in the city, to move to a "suburb" of that same city (I use quotation marks as it's as urban a suburb as you can get, but still outside the city limits.) We moved due to the decline in the public schools and safety issues, though we are desperately sad to leave. We are renting, so get a feel for the place before we buy. Nothing worse that regretting a house purchase because the place doesn't feel right.

@BobISMyUncle

Are you medical profession? We have some amazing hospitals here, Addenbrookes, Papworth, etc. I'm in West Cambridgeshire, and Cambridge itself has a Science Park. The clue is in the name, I think. We also have some excellent schools here, and, yes, some are over subscribed, although I think that tends to be the case wherever you live, sadly. We have excellent countryside walks, literally on the doorstep, and further afield. London (King's Cross) is an hour commute. There is no train to Cambridge, but there is a "guided bus". Peterborough, another city, is about 20 minutes by train. It's also a lower crime rate area. Your car insurance would go down because of this. Our broadband speed is actually quite good! I know this, because my son told me, and he should know, because that's what he does for a living, the fibre optic thing. It's a slower pace of life, and I love it! My kids have never had a problem with social activities, at all, ever, since we moved here. I have not regretted it for a single moment. We're close to the A1, and the A14 and therefore the A14/M1 link. Not close enough to appreciate the noise though! We have no overhead aircraft, except for the (very) occasional RAF jet. No major road traffic jams, unless there's an accident. We have Tesco, Marks and Spencer, and Waitrose on our doorstep, together with Aldi, et al. We are within driving distance of The Grafton Centre and Queensgate shopping centres. We also have various Farm Shops. There is also numerous tourist attractions available, some of which are completely free. We have National Trust and English Heritage places available to visit, together with those grand gardens to visit. If that's what turns your pages, obviously! It didn't turn mine for sure! I was completely against moving here. Hated the thought of moving so far away, away from family, friends, you know the thing. When it was decided that we were moving, we got an Ordnance Survey map (maps, I should say, of different areas) and laid them out, and circled where the railway stations were, investigated how long he was willing to commute (an hour, at the most) and then re-circled the ones that were an hour away. Then, we investigated the areas where we (he) would like to live, and this was the closest we (he) could come up with. I have never regretted it, ever. Not even once. The people here actually say "Mornin'" to you. I found that weird, in the beginning. Complete strangers, greeting you. Apart from that, they all talk funny!! It's all part of their character. Lovely people. Lovely surroundings. I can hear the dawn chorus, rather than traffic. I can smell clean, fresh air, rather than car fumes. I can see the stars at night, rather than light pollution. I've even seen a satelite passing over! Amazing! The public transport system has improved, immensely! When I first got here, I could get a bus to the nearest town, and could spend either 10 minutes before the next bus, or, 4 hours, before the next bus, so I did need a car. You WILL still need a car, because it IS so rural. I would not swap back to my old life, ever. It's not for everyone, I understand that. I know children have a large part in any decision making, but honestly OP, hand on my heart, my 3 have not suffered, at all. Our schools are excellent. 2 of mine have gone on to Cambridge University. Well, all 3 did, but 1 dropped out, so don't know if he counts? We also don't have police or traffic warden people. Our part time police station closed about 5 years ago. We have one set of traffic lights, which is a pedestrian crossing. It doesn't get used, because A. There's not enough traffic and B. There's not enough people to use it We DO have yellow lines, but they don't mean anything. It's only when you get into the "real" towns that anyone bothers about that sort of thing. We have cheap parking, all day. I think it was £2.30 the last time I looked (last year, just before the the You Know What) (sorry! been watching Harry Potter!) If we know the person blocking our car, on a yellow line (double yellow line even) we just go and ask them if they can please move their car. Never an issue. If we don't know whose car it is, ask the person next to you. They'll know, or know someone who does. Within 20 minutes, you'll be able to move your car, and also, have got to know the locals a bit. When I first got here, I was bloody horrified! Honestly, it was as rural as I could ever hope to be. I was absolutely convinced that they all must have webbed feet. At the very least, they were all related! They all laughed like drains when they heard that! The DH shared that information. Bless him. We have been welcomed with open arms and open hearts. My neighbour went pheasant shooting just before Christmas, one year. He then arrived on my doorstep, with a brace of pheasant, looking particularly pleased with himself, and I sent him away. "THAT is NOT coming into my house, unless it looks like it came from Tesco!" And off he went! A couple of hours later, he was back, with a couple of (dressed??) sorted out pheasants. Another friend, caught some trout, again, landed on my doorstep, holding these poor fish by the gills, and he was told the same thing. He wasn't impressed, it had taken him ALL day to catch those. Poor thing. STILL not coming into my house looking like that. Did you know, that there is only breast meat on a pheasant? No legs, wings, thighs, etc? And Trout tastes like mud? Sorry OP! This has been a long ramble. I just really wanted you to have an idea of what it's like, in real life, to live here, in carrot crunching country. There is miles of dog walking opportunities available also. Rivers (not Thames, obviously) available, for dogs to chase sticks into. All of that stuff. We're actually quite civilised. Mostly! Happy House Hunting!! xx

What a lovely post! I'm not a country person at all but I love that you are so happy! Sometimes these kinds of threads can attract a certain level of "urban sneeriness" about the inbreeds...your positivity is refreshing!

Thanks again everyone. I've gone through everyone's posts and making a list of pros/cons and things to think about to discuss with DH. It's a tough one as I know there are upsides/downsides to both moving and staying. The perfect solution would be to win millions on the lottery then we can afford to buy a bigger house where we are (which also moves us away from the busy main road) but that isn't going to happen!

One poster advised:
"You need to look inwards not outwards.
Are you city or country people?
It basically boils down to that.
If you love the quiet, silence even, are self sufficient and not worried about being close to shops and convenience. City people tend to love 'things to do' and appreciate being able to get anything day or night. Country people prefer a much quieter life, with nothing much happening day to day."

That's definitely me. DH is more social but sees his mates when needed. Most of my friends aren't in London anymore having moved out or to other countries over the years. I have made friends with school mums but it's mainly bumping into each in parks or when our kids go to clubs, rather than being friends friends if that makes sense. Everyone is so busy here with their own lives and families (myself included) that my closest friends are ones that don't live in London at all.

I love driving and used to driving a lot here. I'd say we are very self sufficient as well. I think semi rural would suit us. Where my parents live, it's all farmland and uninterrupted views of fields and hills. I can't describe how content this makes me feel. One thing I should add is that I'm not white in ethnicity and that's held me back in the past from moving away from the melting pot in London. However, I think the counties I'm thinking of have enough diversity that it'll be fine. I also appreciate that diversity is more than race and ethnicity.

I think its to do with life stage and ideally fluidity is best.
As a disclaimer I have lived in cities ( though not London) and semi- rurally ( though not fully isolated)
In my younger years city was great. Adult and young child years semi rural is bliss, but then becomes challenging when children get into later teens and want to be more independent.
For my later years I think I will want to return to a more urban setting possibly, or perhaps the world could close in a bit.
On balance I would say that when your life is busiest the calm unpolluted slower way of life outside a city is a tonic, but when you need outside influences on your life and more socialising and vibrancy an urban setting may be best.

Good luck with getting a house it is a bun fight to get anything, if you want somewhere for this summer, even a good rental, it is best to start looking now.

It sounds like you need a compromise. Surrey is horribly expensive and has a bit of a reputation of snooty ex londoenrs. How often do you need to go into the office? Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire there are some lovely places where you can get more for your money whilst still being very close to London (and decent towns of their own). It really depends on your budget.

It sounds like as long as you are near another decent town, you'll be fine away from London.

Don't forget Kent. You can get so much more for your money there. In fact scrap what I said before, Kent and Suffolk is cheaper than the shires.

As a PP said, it's a mindset thing. I grew up fairly rurally, endured 5 years of London and have not regretted leaving it for a minute.

It really depends on your priorities, but it can be hard to know what they are without testing them. We'd like to live in much emptier countryside than where we are, but we have a huge social network that is completely irreplaceable (I went to school locally so I go back a long way), so we'll never move away.

sounds like you will enjoy the benefits of being out of london, I miss the stuff to do and the networks I have in london which I've not managed to build up outside. i think the people who suit a move out are happy being quite self-sufficient.

I'm not London but am staying in my expensive corner of Manchester rather than moving out to a bigger better house because of good schools. I figure I can buy a nicer but not massive house in a more rural (but not too rural) or coastal location in 10 years when dc leave home.

I'd love a big detached house but then I remember that cleaning and maintenance is hard enough in a smaller place. Even with a cleaner.

Your dc would probably prefer to stay put too. You can still enjoy rural life just longer term.

Moved to Cheshire from London 4 years ago and love it. I really barely miss anything. We are close enough to Manchester, Liverpool and Cheshire for the city experience. Nursey and school have been amazing and easy to get into. Manchester city centre has an average population age of 24 so for young ones its fantastic. So much going on and feels very much on the up. To me it feels just as vibrant as London. Better still your kids will grow up knowing they can probably afford to get on the property ladder, whereas in London that is likely to be a pipe dream for most young people in 15 years......unless of course (which could happen), hybrid / WFH means people don't want or need to live in London any more.

@Itsalonghaul

I also find living here very low maintenance.

No one cares if your hair is a birds nest, you have put on several pounds or you have worn the same jumper with holes for months. There is a very relaxed vibe of very low to no maintenance that was so liberating. I am carefree about my appearance now, and no one gives a damn. Kind of enjoy a life that lets me be a whole person. I look at the manicured, blow dried all old me and it looks like hard work! An expensive waste of time. The other thing is that no one ate actual food in London, soups and liquids only from memory. How nice it has been not to care any longer and drink wine and eat bread and cheese in volume, and feel full for once. Yes I don't regret it, not for a nano second. Strangely have no actually put on weight, as I do so much exercise going about my day

This is one of the most bizarre posts I've ever read about London on MN! I don't know anyone who bothers with blow drys and I need to lose weight but no one gives a shit apart from me. Last time I checked I definitely ate real food too.