Will we regret leaving London?

[Townorcountrysideliving]

NC for this as don't want to be outed. We currently live in the less desirable bit of a nice part of SW London and the kids are in good primary schools.

For years, I have wanted to move out of London but apathy from the DH means we haven't. We are bursting at the seams of our current house, we are in the not so nice part of the bit of London we're in and our house is terraced so we can hear the neighborhood and vice versa through the walls and in the garden. We're all very respectful and get on but there is no privacy. This bothers me more than my DH. What I really crave is a bigger house and garden where I can park the car without a scrum, cleaner air, space, being somewhere quiet and countryside walks on my doorstep. As it is, we spend a lot of our time walking (when Covid restrictions allow) in the woods/countryside which is about 20-40min by car depending on where we head. Even before I had kids, I wasn't really benefitting from London living. Not bothered about bars or restaurants and trips to the theatre/museum reduced when I had kids and stopped completely with Covid. I don't miss it at all. If we could afford to move to a bigger place where we are now, we would. We can't though. We could move to the nicer part of where we are but wouldn't gain any extra space and DH says it's pointless to do this.

Pros of moving

• bigger house/garden
• less air and noise pollution
• kids 7+9 have space to run around in and currently enjoy running around in the woods and countryside
• can finally get a dog as I've told DH it wouldn't be fair to have a dog where we currently live due to lack of space (do-able and plenty do but I don't want to add a large dog to an already cramped house)
• my parents are elderly. Looking ahead, in the event one parent isn't around anymore, more space means the option to have the remaining parent move in with us so I can take care of them. We can't do that in the current house but could in a much bigger house so we aren't on top of each other.

Cons

• we are looking at places in Surrey as we often go walking there. Housing is expensive and seems to be in short supply though we'd still get more space than we have now.

• schools is the biggest headache. One child currently at at excellent and well regarded all through school. So, if we stayed in London, we don't have to worry about high school. The other child will likely have to attend a high school out of borough and get on a bus if we stay. Problem with Surrey is that good schools seem to be oversubscribed and secondary high schools don't seem to be as good as the ones we have where we are. This is my main worry. To leave and end up in schools not as good as what they have now/can have.

• we can't afford to move back. Staying in London will make internships much easier and staying at home for a year or two is an option if kids want to go to uni and London rental is too expensive.

• ease of access for kids. In a couple of years, the oldest can easily walk to school on his own in London.

• will the kids even want to be in the countryside in a couple of years? My DH grew up in a city and was very independent meeting his friends. I grew up in a small town where it was normal to walk to a bus stop and wait for an hourly bus into town to meet friends. That was normal for me.

• we both work so one of us would have a longer commute but DH is okay with this as he's also craving more space now and also loves country side walks. He's also desperate for a dog.

We've been looking for ages now and it feels like we're going round in circles. It would be a lot easier without the school issue. We started the search before the pandemic so this isn't a Covid move but certainly the option to WFH most of the week has made it more feasible to move out.

My question is - because of schools, should we just stay in a smaller house and where we are then plan to move when the youngest finishes high school? I feel my soul may die a little if we did that but if it's the right thing for the kids I'll do it. Will we regret moving? Have I idealised the move out of London? Once we move, we can't afford to come back!

Sorry the post is long and rambling. Thank you if you made it to the end. Would love to hear about any experiences others have had doing the same thing or any advice you might have. Thank you!

bob your post made me laugh out loud! You sound like great fun and would enjoy yourself mostly anywhere!

@Townorcountrysideliving

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses.

@SpeedRunParent your lifestyle sounds exactly like the one we want for us and the kids.

For those who suggested moving further afield, we also looked at Herts and Berkshire. Can't look further afield as both of us are tied to London work wise and WFH permanently isn't possible. Not wanting to give too much info so I don't out myself, but both of us would struggle outside of London to find decent jobs in our fields. Otherwise, yes, I'd be totally up for living anywhere! In hindsight, I do wish I trained as a teacher/accountant etc....a job which means I can go anywhere.

Ooooo, are you famous and work in tv?!

You are so right about the wildlife.

We have a family of deer in our garden, a white owl that sits in our tree all evening with her beautiful calls, badgers and hedgehogs trample the woodland. A collection of pheasants live under my bedroom window - they have taken to a 5am start these days, now it is getting lighter.
We have bats! Many bats - one or two fly into the bedrooms circle and leave again, always makes the dc squeal, especially if they are asleep on the warm summer nights.
I have nesting blue tits that return year after year and tap on my windows. I love the wildness, and the feeling I am a small part in a big wild world and I feel humbled by it. We care for everything here.

Every day brings something new, whether it is a crow in the fireplace flapping to escape, or the deer running across the lawns at dawn. It is never truly quiet here because the sounds of wildlife have their own ancient rhythm that can still be heard throughout the day and night, and signify the change of seasons.

It is comforting to hear that life is very vibrant here not with the sound of traffic or people, but of wild animals that have room to live and breathe safely, and we are blessed to have them in our lives.

Couldn’t you just move to a different house in London? Your choices seem to be between the one house, or somewhere completely different. Might there not be a slightly bigger and better house nearby?

We moved out of London January last year, so just before Covid hit. We've been thanking our lucky stars for the past year that we're no longer in a top floor flat with two toddlers and no garden! Aside from that, we're really happy to have moved. We've switched our tiny flat for a 4 bed house with a garden and off road parking for 2 cars. Both kids got places at an excellent nursery which is attached to a farm, so they run around outside and terrorise the chickens and sheep all day. My eldest is starting at the village school in September - it's rated outstanding and yet we had no trouble getting a place, whereas in London we were on the cusp of several lousy catchment areas. There's a village shop and two pubs all in walking distance, my husband has joined the village choir and I've discovered three other families with kids the same age on our street.

Moving out of London can be amazing and we've been really lucky. However, we were very careful about the area we chose - I grew up not far away so was already aware that we'd have to drive everywhere and that we'd need a biggish village with its own amenities. Both of us commute to London one day a week so that was another factor - we didn't want to be more than 15 mins drive from a station and ideally no more than an hour on the train (compromised on that one, it's 1 hour 15).

Do I miss aspects of London? Hell yes. Deliveroo being one, we have to drive into town to collect a fairly mediocre takeaway if ever I can't be arsed to cook. And I really miss mooching down a high street to grab a cup of coffee - going shopping is more of a planned event now rather than a spontaneous pop to the shops.

OH!!
AND!!
We still seem to be far away enough, for people to not want a 2nd home here, yet. Which means, that local people can still afford to live here.
Can I please make a suggestion?
This area is escalating. The Local Council has been given a housing plan. The last time I actually looked, it "recommended" 40,000 houses, in the next 10 years. That has significantly increased, sadly.
Our public transport is improving, all the time.
We don't really have a waiting list to get a GP appointment. Yet.
My suggestion would be, keep your house, rent it out for a few months, and rent here, privately. The rent is cheaper here in any case.

Suck it and see? (for want of a better expression) x
Try it! You might like it!

We have just been introduced to just eat here, finally! We have never had it, so we don't tend to miss what we have never had.
We shop on line mostly and don't miss crowds for shopping at all.

But I do miss world class west end ballets and shows our local theatre if I am honest is a bit amateur and sometimes I quietly slip out in the interval if it is really bad, I definitely miss very very good restaurants with a lively buzz that are a feature of cities and the bars! And small things like taxis, there is more chance of being struck by lightening than getting one here

When I say shop on line, I mean for clothes and shoes, everything else we buy and source locally. Clothing is really dire!! Unless you want wellies and a good fleece!

If you choose your location carefully, you should be able to have the best of both worlds. OK not the complete London experience but still near good facilities, cinemas, theatre and shops. I've always been a mix of city and country girl - brought up in the country, so things like going fishing with my brothers, lovely walks, wildlife etc. My father taught me all about the flora and fauna and that love has never left me.

But we were half an hour's bus ride from a major City - so once I was older there was great nightlife, restaurants etc. and of course the shops!!!

We now live in an area of outstanding natural beauty - so see wild boar, deer, kingfishers, etc. And beautiful wild flowers. Our lovely four bed detached was cheap at £285 just under two years ago and has a garage and a pretty walled garden. But our village has two pub/restaurants, village shop, post office and fish and chip shop and yes, we can get a takeaway Indian or Chinese meal delivered from the next market town only a mile away. A small-ish, but developing City is only half an hour away. Just because it's not London, you can still access many things which make life enjoyable.

Your problem is that you still need to be accessible for London - maybe do more research on areas that are commutable - I know many people who commute from Somerset - Bruton being an example (the downside being that George Osborne has bought a house there!!!!!).

£285k!!!!!!!

I have loved raising my teens in London.
We live in a not posh bit of S London, and there has been so much for them to do, and they have been travelling independently on the wide network of public transport since secondary.

A brilliant scout troupe that took them bushcraft camping and in hiking expeditions, (free) music projects, very cheap youth theatres attached to theatres (not Pauline Quirk or Stagecoach which are costly), festivals, events, and easy to get out of London for the day or weekend when we fancy.

When my kids were small they would have enjoyed their cousin’s more rural life. But as teens, not at all.

I also find living here very low maintenance.

No one cares if your hair is a birds nest, you have put on several pounds or you have worn the same jumper with holes for months. There is a very relaxed vibe of very low to no maintenance that was so liberating. I am carefree about my appearance now, and no one gives a damn. Kind of enjoy a life that lets me be a whole person. I look at the manicured, blow dried all old me and it looks like hard work! An expensive waste of time. The other thing is that no one ate actual food in London, soups and liquids only from memory. How nice it has been not to care any longer and drink wine and eat bread and cheese in volume, and feel full for once. Yes I don't regret it, not for a nano second. Strangely have no actually put on weight, as I do so much exercise going about my day

And we have the BEST festivals in the country here! So all of summer is taken up with going to on or the other. Or dropping the kids off.

We moved from London to Kent about 6-7 years ago. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and then lived in Devon for a number of years in my later teens and 20’s. After meeting my DH and 15 years of living in Bromley, we moved to a small ‘historic’ town in Kent. Our London rent had suddenly been raised ( our landlord hiked it by 400 a month!).

So with family help and in a panic, we bought a run down property on a 1960’s retirement style estate in this semi rural area. I’d never been to the town before and didn’t know anyone but we had no choice because we couldn’t afford to stay in Bromley and this house was at our budget but near the train for my DH to get into London.

I can’t emphasise enough how much I hate it. The town is pretty yes, but incredibly dull, unfriendly, insular, definitely not multicultural and a really odd population demographic.

A mix of many wealthy retirees who live in all the posh Tudor houses, a few commuters next to some larger estates that have lots of social problems which create some anti - social issues. People are either older or young parents with babies - not much here for those in their 40’s and 50’s like me.

The grammar school system is a total nightmare. Either amazing grammars or just terrible comps ( secondary mods). Even if your child passes the 11 plus, they still might not get in to your chosen school.

This area has now been earmarked for huge development so all the pretty countryside is literally being ruined ( I’m talking 8 thousand homes here) plus much across my borough. I’m now living on a building site it seems with constant building noise all over the town.

No one can afford London now so are moving to my area it seems! I don’t blame them but the countryside is changing forever sadly. Plus the biggest solar park in the world on my doorstep later this year.

Once my kids are all over 18 in 4 years, my DH and I will move we have decided. ( kids can come with us lol!) There are many nice areas of Kent but it’s becoming concreted over very fast- (the roads are absolutely horrendous) but still without all that London has to offer.

I found it very isolating to move here when my kids were all primary age in Yr 6, 4 and 3. We moved when my eldest was in her last term of Yr 6 so it worked out well generally for the kids. But not me. Everyone knew everyone else already. I’ve never settled here and with my DH up in London every day, I was stuck here alone.

I have no idea where we will move to it when but I have found living in a fairly small semi rural Kentish town very very difficult. On paper, my town looks fantastic and ticks every box. But living here is the most boring thing I’ve ever done. I have tried to integrate too and although I know my neighbours, I can’t wait to leave.

Kent is changing very fast too; it’s becoming extremely busy but does’t offer city life. I just don’t really like the overcrowded south East really but I love London and would happily move back. Like many others, we just got priced out.

I’ve lived up north for a while too as my family are originally from Northumberland. I would choose friendly northerners anytime if I could! I hate being trapped in this corner of the country, but financially I’m stuck until my kids have all left home. I sound ungrateful and I’m not. I very much value all I have. I just have never settled in this area.

We raised our three teens in a two-bed house in London. We are glad we stayed. Our DC are glad we stayed (they are now at university or at first job stage). We did think about moving out at an earlier point. For us, the positives outweighed the negatives. I wouldn’t have wanted to go very rural, though.

Well there’s rural and there’s rural ....

I’m in a village on the Cambridgeshire/ Suffolk border. I’m not British, I grew up in Dublin. When I first moved here I hit the jackpot in a lovely village. But we moved three times - one move was only to a village 12 miles away but - oh my god it was so different and I hated it - so I moved back to the original village. I’m now looking to buy with around here (having finally decided to stay).

It sounds, to be honest, like you will like semi rural life. Bizarrely, you can feel more “observed” in a village than in a jam packed city suburb, so choose your village wisely, and your place in the village (outskirts v on the high street with the local gossips).

I would say rent first, and then pick where to buy. There is such a different vibe in each village. Some are soulless, some believe they are the epicentre of the universe.

madame I can feel your pain in your post, really it is a very sobering read. I agree entirely that it there is a real risk of getting 'locked' into places, and it is surprisingly easy. You move, kids settle and make friends, they then become older and you can't move because of exams etc. So finding the right place as a family is really important to get right, as from 11yrs onwards it becomes increasingly hard to move - and then once dc are into early adulthood they will set up their own lives/jobs and families and you won't want to move away then, even given the chance.

So you are right to highlight that this can be very negative and isolating if you choose the wrong area.

How old are your dc madame? Are you able to perhaps move closer to where you used to live? You sound so unhappy, and it is your life too. I don't think I would stay, honestly, I would have to move in your position.

You don’t talk about your social needs at all. Do you have friends in London? Elsewhere? Pre-covid what did you do to socialise?

You have to factor this in to your move.

Lots of people have talked about feeling very isolated moving into a smaller town or suburb. It can be very hard to find like minded people, amd being able to enjoy socialising with more or less anybody is a big advantage for this kind of move.

I would also be concerned for the move away from a good school for one of your kids. I do wonder why only one of your kids has a good school: sounds like you are already having to make compromises over education, which must be adding to your dissatisfaction.

With there being a significant population shift out of London, with covid, might it be possible to find somewhere near enough to continue your child in the good school but open the opportunities for your other child?

Hi I'm in Esher, which is firmly the burbs but take a look at Claygate. It's got a wonderful family vibe and there are decent range of house sizes and options. It is right on the edge of miles of amazing countryside accessed on foot. My family live in Teddington and even though we're not far, Claygate feels a million miles away. It's quiet but there's lots going on. My kids are the same age and while the rural ideal sounds appealing I know they will need more going on when they become more independent in a few years.

@itsalonghaul you have NO idea. The first time I heard an owl, I was running down the drive, thinking a baby had been left, abandoned. That poor baby. The DH was running behind me, yelling, it's an owl!

Just realised my response never posted! Thanks for the additional responses. Some useful things to think about here.

@FleetwoodRaincoat. unfortunately, our jobs are very much tied to London so we have to be within commuting distance (not too far that it affects the quality of life). We have also spent time looking at places in Herts as well as Berkshire. I have many friends up North and would happily live in Yorkshire if DH and I could find jobs there in our chosen fields!

@SpeedRunParent your lifestyle sounds exactly like the one I want!

I hope we've all given you an insight, even vaguely, of why and how we've made our decisions. Some of us have never regretted it, some wish they had never even contemplated it! It's you and your family that matter. You can only do what you think is best at the time.

Good luck!! xx

Townorcountrysideliving
It suits us very well. But then we are not a family interested in the more superficial occupations in life and, although I am by no means introverted, I can well do without having lots of people around me. As someone else rightly said, horses for courses.

@Itsalonghaul

I also find living here very low maintenance.

No one cares if your hair is a birds nest, you have put on several pounds or you have worn the same jumper with holes for months. There is a very relaxed vibe of very low to no maintenance that was so liberating. I am carefree about my appearance now, and no one gives a damn. Kind of enjoy a life that lets me be a whole person. I look at the manicured, blow dried all old me and it looks like hard work! An expensive waste of time. The other thing is that no one ate actual food in London, soups and liquids only from memory. How nice it has been not to care any longer and drink wine and eat bread and cheese in volume, and feel full for once. Yes I don't regret it, not for a nano second. Strangely have no actually put on weight, as I do so much exercise going about my day

Your London viewpoint is vey skewed. I don’t recognise anything, or anyone remotely like it, in your post. I live in London and I’m low maintenance, I haven’t been to a hairdresser in a decade, I’ve never had a manicure. And everyone eats actual food.

@MadameXanadu
I wonder if you live in a town beginning with 'T'? In a way it doesn't really matter, because your description sounds like many other places in Kent.