Will we regret leaving London?

[Townorcountrysideliving]

NC for this as don't want to be outed. We currently live in the less desirable bit of a nice part of SW London and the kids are in good primary schools.

For years, I have wanted to move out of London but apathy from the DH means we haven't. We are bursting at the seams of our current house, we are in the not so nice part of the bit of London we're in and our house is terraced so we can hear the neighborhood and vice versa through the walls and in the garden. We're all very respectful and get on but there is no privacy. This bothers me more than my DH. What I really crave is a bigger house and garden where I can park the car without a scrum, cleaner air, space, being somewhere quiet and countryside walks on my doorstep. As it is, we spend a lot of our time walking (when Covid restrictions allow) in the woods/countryside which is about 20-40min by car depending on where we head. Even before I had kids, I wasn't really benefitting from London living. Not bothered about bars or restaurants and trips to the theatre/museum reduced when I had kids and stopped completely with Covid. I don't miss it at all. If we could afford to move to a bigger place where we are now, we would. We can't though. We could move to the nicer part of where we are but wouldn't gain any extra space and DH says it's pointless to do this.

Pros of moving

• bigger house/garden
• less air and noise pollution
• kids 7+9 have space to run around in and currently enjoy running around in the woods and countryside
• can finally get a dog as I've told DH it wouldn't be fair to have a dog where we currently live due to lack of space (do-able and plenty do but I don't want to add a large dog to an already cramped house)
• my parents are elderly. Looking ahead, in the event one parent isn't around anymore, more space means the option to have the remaining parent move in with us so I can take care of them. We can't do that in the current house but could in a much bigger house so we aren't on top of each other.

Cons

• we are looking at places in Surrey as we often go walking there. Housing is expensive and seems to be in short supply though we'd still get more space than we have now.

• schools is the biggest headache. One child currently at at excellent and well regarded all through school. So, if we stayed in London, we don't have to worry about high school. The other child will likely have to attend a high school out of borough and get on a bus if we stay. Problem with Surrey is that good schools seem to be oversubscribed and secondary high schools don't seem to be as good as the ones we have where we are. This is my main worry. To leave and end up in schools not as good as what they have now/can have.

• we can't afford to move back. Staying in London will make internships much easier and staying at home for a year or two is an option if kids want to go to uni and London rental is too expensive.

• ease of access for kids. In a couple of years, the oldest can easily walk to school on his own in London.

• will the kids even want to be in the countryside in a couple of years? My DH grew up in a city and was very independent meeting his friends. I grew up in a small town where it was normal to walk to a bus stop and wait for an hourly bus into town to meet friends. That was normal for me.

• we both work so one of us would have a longer commute but DH is okay with this as he's also craving more space now and also loves country side walks. He's also desperate for a dog.

We've been looking for ages now and it feels like we're going round in circles. It would be a lot easier without the school issue. We started the search before the pandemic so this isn't a Covid move but certainly the option to WFH most of the week has made it more feasible to move out.

My question is - because of schools, should we just stay in a smaller house and where we are then plan to move when the youngest finishes high school? I feel my soul may die a little if we did that but if it's the right thing for the kids I'll do it. Will we regret moving? Have I idealised the move out of London? Once we move, we can't afford to come back!

Sorry the post is long and rambling. Thank you if you made it to the end. Would love to hear about any experiences others have had doing the same thing or any advice you might have. Thank you!

OH! and for people missing the theatre, etc. We have that here as well!
We have Cambridge - I can't think where the likes of Monty Python, et al originated from ...
Do not ever think that because we live out in the sticks that we are somehow rural, ooh arr ooh arr,. We are very rural, but not uneducated. We can still step into the road, if the pavement gets a bit crowded. We can walk, in a straight line, down our high streets. We do not have to say "sorry" every two steps, because we nudged someone else. We can get on a train, earlier, so have more chance of getting a seat for any commute. It's not lacking anything, it's just a little more gentle. I'm not old enough to be a member of the local WI, but my 17 year old daughter is a member, of 2 years. I still don't even know what to say about that. I don't get free jam, cakes or anything lovely. Heartless. That's what it is. Heartless.

But please do not base your decision to move on whether your children will want somewhere to live to do internships in London in 10-15 years!?! Seems such a specific concern.

I actually think this is one of the things that would make me want to stay in London - post university the fact of having a bedroom in London made a huge difference amongst my friends. Those of us who were able to stay with family for a couple of years whilst taking some underpaid work basically all have better careers now. Obviously the working landscape might well have changed in 15 years but I think there are lots of opportunities associated with having a base in London.

A couple of pp have mentioned Cambridgeshire and Suffolk as possible areas to look at and I would very much agree with that - also north Essex as well.

Lots of lovely rural villages with easy access to larger cities - and house prices are so much cheaper than Surrey.

Peterborough and Cambridge are both 50 minutes from Kings Cross, and Colchester is around 50 minutes from Liverpool Street and Ipswich is about 1hr 10 mins from there.

I'm in Herts. Walking distance to the Met Line (or Chiltern Line) Station. Schools are fantastic, teenagers can walk to the gym, sports clubs, swimming pool. Waitrose.

And countryside literally 30 seconds from my front door. We can walk from my house to the Chilterns. Deer, red kites, pheasants etc.

Best of both worlds.

! and for people missing the theatre, etc. We have that here as well!

That's a bit like saying "we have parks in London, why do people move out for green space?"

Of course there are cultural things outside London but obviously not as many. I grew up in Cambridge, it's lovely and has some great things to do but the theatre and art etc doesn't compare to London in terms of the variety and choice .

Interesting to read people's experiences. I'm moving from London to Hertfordshire and am really looking forward to it, albeit with some worry I might feel I'm missing out when London opens up again! Which it sounds like some people definitely do feel.

I'm still relatively young and don't currently have children so perhaps it seems premature to make such a move. But I really haven't enjoyed the last few years of London living - and that's even before the pandemic. Whilst I'm not that far out, I rarely went into central London during my leisure time (when we could). I'm sure I'd feel differently about the city if I owned a neatly renovated Victorian townhouse in a posh, leafy neighbourhood and had lots of disposable income! But alas I am young and of modest means...

I find much of London scruffy, run down and with depressing levels of deprivation which are particularly noticeable in some of the 'trendier' areas. And whilst it's lovely to have loads of things to do relatively close to your doorstep, if you don't feel safe being out and about at night you're pretty confined to the home for most of winter anyway... I've witnessed muggings from my flat window at 6pm on a dark evening

When I do have children, I know I'll be prioritising clean air, access to healthy, outdoor pursuits and safer streets when choosing somewhere to live. For those who miss London or regret living it, hopefully those things are of some comfort to you!

@daisypond I really don’t recognise that description of London either! I’m clearly mixing with a very different crowd!

I grew up rurally and occasionally hanker after a village lifestyle. But I think the reality is unless we relocate out of the South East / commuter belt (and what that means for jobs etc) we wouldn’t be able to significantly upgrade in property terms if we want to tick all the other boxes (commutable into London, good schools, services etc).

Realistically we are probably as close to ‘having it all’ here (London zone 4) as we will be anywhere else. I live on quiet street backing on to woodland. We hear birds (including woodpeckers and the occasional owl!) not traffic. I can go on a lunchtime walk around open parkland. I can be in either central London or countryside in 25mins. DC can walk to school, we have coffee shops, restaurants etc in 2 mins walk. Friendly community. Loads of activities for the DC.

I do hanker after countryside on our doorstep but ultimately I tend to think it’s easier to drive for 20-30 mins on a weekend for a country walk and that be the only time I have to use my car, than it is to have country walks on my doorstep but use the car for everything else (also when we lived rurally we still used to drive for 20-30 mins for country walks because you don’t want to do the same walk from your front door every day!

Sorry, I keep thinking I should shut up now, but then I think of something else! I'm a rubbish sales person! I keep thinking about the wide open spaces we have here. Not only the National trust things, but the natural things,. We had two cars, one each, and drove to a place, left a car, then drove to another place, parked the car, and then walked the distance between the two. It usually involved wellies, warm clothing and warm socks. When we got to the car, we loaded the kids in, and drove to the other car, and went home. The kids were completely knackered, and slept so well. So did I!! I think the less said about that, the better! LOL! It is SO ideal for dogs. We used to meet friendly dogs, all the time. I'm far too lazy to have a dog. I honestly don't know if we have dog parks here, I don't have a dog.
We do have poo bins. Plenty of those! Just in case, I expect.
We used to have a little local cinema, which is no longer here, very sadly. It's been demolished, to make way for Council housing. It used to have a local disco thing, on a Wednesday, for 12 years old and under. On a Friday, it had Fizz, a disco thing for 13 and up. It was always safe and secure. It had films obviously, during the rest of the week.
Except!! LOL! On Thursday, (and only Thursday) they had a cinema showing, especially for Naturists. Bring your own towel, to sit on. That was the only thing insisted on. I kid you not. Yes, we got the films a little later, usually only two weeks later.
It wasn't like a cinema as we know it now. Forget Cine World, Showcase, et al. This was armchairs, little tables, and drinks, served at your table. Very old fashioned, but I thought it was bloody lovely! We still got the films, but served in a gentle way. And! the armchairs were always clean!! And watching the films, at a table, in an armchair, with drinks being served at your table, very civilised! I'm not old, this was only 3 years ago. I

I grew up in a village near Godalming. It was awful living there as a teenager and I ran away to London as soon as I was old enough. There's fuck all to do and anything you do arrange your parents have to ferry you around which was a constraint strain on everyone. There were so much drugs and boozing, getting high or pissed down the local woods was all we could do in a Friday night, kids mucking around with motorbikes etc. I wasn't horsey and my parents couldn't afford those sort of hobbies, so there wasn't anything else. Plus zero diversity.

I moved from London I am a Londoner, to a large market town near a huge town .
Lots of local shops restaurants etc
The teens can get around a great school locally etc.

Trains to London are very close by.

If you are thinking of moving to any home county I'd check the situation on grammar schools system there. We don't have them in ours but all the county's surrounding us do, so lots of pressure to get your children into them, 11+ and all that nonsense

I was going to suggest the end of the Met Line out near the Chilterns as a great location with access to tube for teens?

Also, just to add that where I grew up is now massively serviced by County Lines. There is arguably easier access to drugs every weekend in Godalming than in parts of London!

@nickymanchester thank you! Exactly what you said!!
My daughter went to Exeter, because at the time, Cambridge did not offer what my daughter was looking for. Apparently. Bless her. She is a third child, behind two boys. And trying to kid me? I did NOT snort, I didn't, I promise. I let her have her head, as it were, and all of a sudden, she phoned me, saying that she'd decided to change to Cambridge. I just asked her if she was sure, and yes, she was decided.
She decided to study English and become a teacher.

Yes I was going to say drugs and drink being a problem for teens...when I grew up you were either in the getting pissed down the park set or the boring stay at home set, there wasn’t many other alternatives. I was the ‘stay at home’ set. My parents never really entered into spirit of ferrying me around places and I wasn’t into drinking and drug taking so my teenage years were very very dull.

I moved from London 15 years ago, I grew up there so it was a bit of a shock to be out in the sticks as I used to call it! We live in Surrey, about an hour away from where I grew up so it's not too far to visit family or have a night out. Having said that we do have the finances to either treat ourselves to a hotel in Central London or get a cab home if we want to meet old friends for drinks, if we didn't that would be the only drawback of living here.

In terms of quality of life where we live definitely outweighs the lifestyle we would have had in London, my children have benefitted hugely from the space, clean air, country feeling, everyone is so much friendlier and it honestly feels so laid back and alike being on holiday all the time, I appreciate it so much more than my dh who grew up locally.

We have miles and miles of common and woodland on our doorstep which has been invaluable over lockdown and are under five minutes from the centre of our village, ten mins from the nearest small picturesque town, twenty mins from a large town with good nightlife and a busy high street and 40 mins from the beach!
The schools are fab and all my children's friends are very close by, I wouldn't move back if you paid me!

@Townorcountrysideliving

Sorry for responding late. Thanks for all the posts and feedback above. I've been reading them to DH!

I should clarify that I know Surrey isn't rural but I wasn't sure where else to post in Talk. We like Godalming, Witley, Farnham, Frensham and places similar to this and around that part of Surrey. Definitely not Guildford and not busier places like Esher or Epsom.

I should mention that the other reason to move is to get away from the hot housing / scramble for secondary school places where we are. I suspect there will be some of that in Surrey but I can't believe it can be as intense as where we are.

Just to add, I live very near to where you are looking and many people in the area have made a similar move so you wouldn't be alone.

OP, I hope that given all of of our comments, you have a clue, at least. I wish you well in your search. We are very rural here, and have black earth. No road barriers, because there is nothing to attach it to. Our ditches are wide and deep. If you go too fast on our roads, you're likely to take off and become a passenger. I can't think of anything else to tell you. I've given you the bad stuff and the positive stuff, I hope. It's ultimately your decision xx
Good luck!

When I first moved here, I hated it. So much so, I drove the car to get anywhere, even though the "town" centre was a 15 minute walk away. I did NOT want to mingle with the local oiks.
Those people, who had webbed feet. Those people, who gave the name to Village Idiot. Those people who had thick lips and were all related to each other.
You know, THOSE people.
However. I have been so welcomed by these village webbed feet idiots. So much, that I think I may be related to them as well. Scary!! I know, they have busy teeth. Or no teeth. It doesn't make them bad people. Just poor mouth hygiene or something. I love living here! It's not true, about everyone knowing your business. They only know what you want them to know.
I love being able to sit outside in the evening, and see and feel the bats, skimming across the top of my head. Bats do NOT get tangled in your hair, despite horror films. I love being able to watch a proper thunderstorm, in all it's glory, and be up close and personal. I love being able to witness lightning, It sounds really stupid, but I have stood outside, in proper rain, pelting down, been so wet, I couldn't get wetter. My hair was an abomination, but at the same time, was the best it has ever been! (my hair is naturally curly, bane of my life) I love that I can look up, with no lamposts to interfere with my view.

Moved from west London to Surrey (not desirable spots like the one you mentioned) (this one was 45 mins to Waterloo) and couldn't wait to move back. Took us 8 years but we did move back in the end. We do miss some things about a low-urban lifestyle but mostly we are happy to be back!

How many people, when you've been away and come back home, can see your town from 20 miles away, because of the orange glow that it gives? I used to live in a town, where, once I crested the hill, there it was, the orange glow. I was nearly 30 miles away. But, it was home. I hated it. I couldn't hear the dawn chorus, because of the A14, even though we were at least 5 miles away from it. A constant "white noise, I suppose. I missed the birds, because of the flight path of Luton Airport. The birds stayed away, except crows, etc.
And then!!
Ta Da!!
I moved here, and it's just a bit more, I don't know, conducive? I look up, and the stars are there. The dawn chorus here starts at 04.05 hours, precisely. I'd like to be able to turn it up!! LOL! Life is just a bit more gentle, even with children. It's not just about your children is it?
This is about you and your partner. You are ALL equally important. Please know, that your children will fit in, wherever you are. Gosh. Shutting up now, I'm starting to sound like that Baz Lerman bloke!! LOL! Sunscreen xx Shutting the fuck up x

Personally, I think leafy suburbia is a good balance of the benefits of both. Commuting time to London isn't horrendous and the benefits of plenty of green space. Not many PPs seem to have mentioned commuting time - Godalming to London train is about 50 mins...if there are no delays. Factor in 15 mins to get to the station. Then 20-30 minutes to get to your work once you arrive in Waterloo - that's 1 hour 35 mins without delays. I live in Esher - Kingston is within easy reach and yet our house looks over fields. Best of both worlds.

There must be some happy medium that’s more affordable for space, either further out in London or a commutable small town?

I want to live where @BobISMyUncle lives! Sounds lovely.

I could have written your post, OP!!
Everything you said resonated so much, and was exactly how I had been feeling for years in a terrace in a shit part of London with young kids.
I didn’t grow up in a city and had wanted out for so long but DH wasn’t keen and, ultimately, our jobs depended on being close to the centre.
But when that changed we got out - and now live in a tiny rural village. We have a big house and garden, kids go to a local school they love, and we have to drive for anything (milk, takeaways, whatever). I wouldn’t change it for the world. I’m so much happier. I don’t even miss the ‘convenience’ of a bigger place because I know what downsides that comes with.
I’m within an hour of London by train so I can still meet friends, have an evening out/theatre etc if I want to.
Do it if that’s what you want and need. You won’t regret it if you’re anything like me (and it sounds like you are).

(OP, I did move out of London, regretted it and moved back after a few years - who knows whether rural living is right for you. I didn't like commuting, and for me have no regrets about bringing up the children in London - completely think it's the best place to bring them up. But we aren't outdoorsy and I don't particularly like driving everywhere).