April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@mysonsmother82 that is really shocking - sorry

Thankyou. It really is. Just seen my typo definitely isn't excusable!

My mum was prob no where near as bad. But she did do some fucked up things. One thing that sticks in my mind is when friends used to phone the landline she used to say I wasn't in. She didn't like me having friends I think. I remember thinking how fucked up that was, especially as I had struggled to make friends and was a late bloomer in that regard. I was absolutely desperate for friendship, it was my only hope of escape from them.
Whenever a friend came over (no one stayed for long!) she used to be really rude and make them feel unwelcome. Lots of my friends when I was younger said the same thing.

Funnily enough she never had any of her own friends!

@scroogemcfuckaduck That's horrible. Who wants there child to have no friends? It's like the wiring in these mothers is just fucked. I'd be heartbroken to think my child didn't have friends and I'm sure you'd feel the same.
Nasty bitter people, It's no surprise that they inevitably end up with no one .

These people are so twisted… it amazes me how many seem to want to have children only to abuse their power.

I feel like I come from another planet in comparison to those I am supposedly related to. I’ve come to the sad realisation over the last few years that there isn’t a single member of my family that I like. I’ve kept low contact for the sake of the kids and I can’t be arsed with the fall out but I really have very little to do with any of them, none of them are pleasant. As DC gets older contact is less and less which suits me fine. They are all twisted in their own little ways. I was brought up to be the fixer/helper/good child that never complained.

None of them like me having a voice or telling them I’m not here to tolerate their BS. My so called brother even had the audacity to tell me “perhaps it’s time you grow up” when I had refused to get involved in the estate of grandparent. Effectively my mother was refusing to engage and her sibling thought the appropriate route to rectify this was to go through me to ask that I “convince” her to play ball. I barely have a relationship with her as it is, I had no interest in getting involved and pointed out that, as a grandchild this has absolutely nothing to do with me. Needless to say so called brother, who is NC with so called mother had an interest in the will as he was named in it. So of course I should “grow up” to get him, his money quicker.

If you are not serving a purpose for them you are of no use. And they wonder why I don’t want to be around them.

Sadly in laws are no better, as was said earlier in the thread they wish to abuse and scapegoat us and then we are to attend family gatherings which suit them, sit there and smile at the table. They are all very passive aggressive, smile at you and give the impression we all “get along” for the sake of putting on a show for others but actually they have no interest in us and pretty much ignore us. What a bunch!

I’ve also spent years of my life wondering if it is me/us who are the issue. As the saying goes “if you are surrounded by arseholes, perhaps it is you who is the arsehole”. It seems however that we have hit the toxic jackpot, for both myself and my DH, not only were we born into a pile of toxic BS, we married into more!! The upside is we both “get” it but Christ it makes me feel so shit for our DC. We will break the cycle but some days it’s bloody hard!!

So thankful for this thread and all who contribute to it, helps me remember I’m not going mad!

Bloody hell. So many awful parents. I wonder how many of us can echo the sentiment from @Getolderbutneverwiser -

"I’ve come to the sad realisation over the last few years that there isn’t a single member of my family that I like."

Dysfunctional parents seem not to understand that children are little people who one day will be fully-grown people. I once whispered in my mother's ear "I remember everything". She was in her 70s, and the shock on her face was priceless.

I really do think there's absolutely no point in spelling out why we go NC (or LC), because these people cannot face up to what they've done and are unable to take responsibility for, or even admit, their terrible behaviours. But deep down inside, they KNOW what they've done. Let them fester in their own poison. It was of their own making.

@Sicario thanks for the advice. I love that you whispered that in your mum's ear, payback for the little girl she abused.

I have been thinking about calling mine out a lot and think there's nothing I could write that really can communicate the gravitas of how my childhood has traumatised me. Of course they did take us on a holiday once a year, I always had the essentials and was fed at least once a day as far as I can remember, we mostly went to stately homes but we did go to Alton Towers once. My mum will always remember these things and think she did ok. She won't remember how unkind she was day to day, how much she resented everything she did for me, how cruel she can be, because it's so engrained in her personality.

@Sicario I've often said that my mother acts as if myself and my two brothers were deaf, dumb and blind during our childhood. "Yes mother, I do remember the stuff that happened when I was 9" ...and even more so since I've read your diary from that year...when my father left when I was 21 she ripped and threw away every diary she'd kept...so just over a decades worth. The one from the year I was 9/10 was small, so it was still intact. That was the year my father started working abroad in the third world and my mother became a 'trailing spouse', so my memories of that year are very vivid anyway. Reading the diary confirmed that my mother is a pathological liar - she always says now that all the bad decisions made when I was a child were 100% on my father - I read in her own words that was far from the case. I'd always known that anyway, but it was good to have it confirmed. Some would say I had no right to invade her privacy, but after the childhood I had - I'm being treated for C-PTSD - I really don't think she deserves any privacy.

I really do think there's absolutely no point in spelling out why we go NC (or LC), because these people cannot face up to what they've done and are unable to take responsibility for, or even admit, their terrible behaviours.

Amen to this, as well. My mother is a master gaslighter and will cheerfully deny to your face things that her (and my father) did when we were children. My mother is so self absorbed I doubt she's even realised I've gone LC with her.

My mum also acts as if I've fabricated an entire childhood. Before I went nc I went through a period of sleepwalking (have always done this on and off) My husband brought it up in conversation with her and she told him she's always been a deep sleeper and if I ever tell him anything bad about her to ignore it, it's just me dreaming! Makes sense, people regularly dream the first 18 years of life !
I'm also coming to the realisation that I don't think much of anyone in my family. I'm considering going nc with my dad, unlike my mum he is apologetic about my childhood and sometimes try's to make up for it (he paid for my wedding last year, very unlike him.) but I'm never going to get over the fact that he left his small children with a psychopath. (I clear as day remember being about 5 and he sat on my bed and I told him to move to my nans then to come back and take me with him)
He did move out but never come back for us. He started a new family and we barely saw him. He left us with nothing, (bed was literal a mattress on the floor with a filthy blanket) The older I get the more I think it's probably really unhealthy to forgive something that is unforgivable.

@mysonsmother82 I'm really sorry you had that experience. I was also a bad sleepwalker as a child, however my mother didn't bother to tell me until it started up again when I was in my 30s...the same way she didn't tell my older brother he'd been born with a whole in his heart until he was in his mid 20s (and had already been smoking for about 7 years...that lack of knowledge could have killed him).

The older I get the more I think it's probably really unhealthy to forgive something that is unforgivable

Don't even get me started on the whole 'you forgive them for yourself' bollocks. I'm 55 and have been hearing that bullshit since I was 23. I just can't forgive them for what they put me and my brothers through, to me 'forgiving' them is letting them off the hook, downplaying what happened and treating them like children who had no control over their actions....I cannot and will not do it. If my mother (I've been no contact with my father for 34 years) had shown the slightest bit of remorse - including for emotionally blackmailing myself and my brothers into going no contact with my father to 'punish' him for leaving her - maybe I would feel differently.

*hole in his heart

@Getolderbutneverwiser - 'None of them like me having a voice or telling them I’m not here to tolerate their BS. ' - yes absolutely true. We are given the 'special training' to be the good child, to put up with everything, to accept it and when we don't they hate it and rebel. Also your comment of 'I’ve also spent years of my life wondering if it is me/us who are the issue.' - I think this boils down to again the special training they give that if we dare to speak up, we are made to feel this way.

I do agree with @Sicario , that there is no point in giving reasons to them of going NC or LC. I had a discussion with my birth family and followed it up with a message - but it has been conveniently ignored. I realised that they deal with problems by ignoring them, brushing them under the carpet and blaming everyone else for it but themselves - pretty much the same experience as @thecatsmeows. My Mum's favourite sayings were 'let's just forget about this and drop it' and 'well that's just the way I (or XX) am and you just have to accept that'. I used to quietly seethe and fume but learnt not to say anything. Sadly it took a tragedy in my life to finally make the break and go completely NC. I had years of going LC, but this angered my family even more. I realise I only kept LC due to fear, obligation and guilt. I wish that it had not taken my tragedy to finally realise what utter arseholes they are and they are incapable of considering anyone but their own wellbeing and happiness.

That said, I must admit I do hold out a crazy hope, especially at birthdays etc, that my birth family will see the errors of their ways or maybe reach out with a genuine apology and a promise to change - but they don't. In fact, they prefer to put the blame on me! I also admit it really hurts but I remember wise Atilla's words that it is not possible to reason with people with such disordered thinking and it is better to give up that hope. @mysonsmother82 - you are right the older we get, the more realise that we that we cannot forgive what is unforgivable. After all, you can only forgive if you are 100% sure that there is no resentment and you can accept their explanations/excuses (sadly never any apologies as it is never their fault) - and in my personal case, I admit that I cannot.

One silver lining of going NC is that there are no dramas anymore and I am less stressed by them - but I do often feel sad about it all and disappointed with their behaviour.

The more I accept my parents are dysfunctional the more sad memories come to mind. At the same time I keep questioning myself whether I'm really justified to feel about my parents the way I do.

I remember one incident where my father discovered someone had bitten a piece off some cheese. He thought it was me and I told him it hadnt been me.

He then went on to tell me that the bitemarks looked like my teeth and it must have been me. I kept denying it. All the while I saw mother sitting at the table smirking and laughing. So not only was I not to be believed, I was also brought to trial with apparent evidence and mother enjoyed how I kept trying to get father to believe me. I also wonder why this had to be investigated at all. It's really sick. It's one of many examples of how my mother enjoyed seeing me struggle.

My mother used to do the denial thing too. I would be up at her house, being spoken to like I was like a naughty child - I was in my late 40s - would walk out as I couldn't put up with it any more then a week later I'd get a text inviting me out for coffee as if nothing had every happened. This happened over and over again till I finally gave up and went NC.

The older I get the more I think it's probably really unhealthy to forgive something that is unforgivable
I couldn't forgive any of her behaviours as they were totally unwarranted and she showed no understanding of what she had done or any remorse. She was totally delusional and you just can't reason with people like that,

Am I overreacting, or is that my reaction due to the 'special training' I've had?

I've been NC for 3 months not because that's what I wanted but because of my narc mum's reaction to me needing a break. She's enraged and playing the victim. In therapy I've realised that I'm not actually cared about but am used for supply, and I can't continue to get absolutely nothing but nastiness in return for such high expectations of what I'll do for her,

She's not behaved in ways outlined here, in fact she's very keen to present as being lovely to the world (classic covert narc) but I feel unsafe any time I'm with her. I'm worrying that I've gone too far.

@grizzletopsy
Gone too far in what sense ?
There is always going to be fall out for standing your ground. Trust your instincts conformed by therapy that this is best for YOU. You will never win trying to play the game their way because as you have realised you are so conditioned to the family dynamic it is v hard to see the wood for the trees.
Hang in there and give it time. x

Thank you. It's an important day today and while her silence is appreciated, I'm not quite at the point of not feeling a tiny bit let down. Again.

@grizzletopsy the ways she is behaving and how she makes you feel are enough. So in therapy you outline what could change...ie take a break from her. You tell her that. She kicks off that you are being unreasonable - I guess either she said I'm not talking to you at all or she is giving out silence......to get you to come to her. The game is that you approach her and prove you needed her after all.

You stay away and feel like you should go back to the game. It's uncomfortable.....that will be what you need to take to therapy.

I think the training we are given is the overriding factor in that feeling of “am I overreacting?” Or “is it me in the wrong” we’ve been trained to be the “good” ones for so long, our behaviour was moulded around keeping these people happy and not “setting them off”.

I was regularly physically and mentally punished for things my brother had done, he would smile while I got battered and then ignored for something he had done. He was smug he got away with it. My mother absolutely know it was him who had done these things. Afterall, he was the rebellious one and I was the “good girl” but he was also the golden child and I was the scapegoat so it was only ever going to go one way.

I can forgive them for what they did to me and shit it has left me to deal with on life. I can’t forgive my father for leaving me with her, starting a new life and prioritising his new family, leaving me to rot. I wish I hadn’t clung to him when I was younger, the thought of being with him at the weekend and away from my mother would get me through the week. He was not a great parent, by any stretch but he didn’t physically or mentally hurt me so by comparison I thought that was love, but he wasn’t interested in me either, he just had more tolerance for me than for my brother who caused trouble at every opportunity.

None of them deserve forgiveness, they all know what they’ve done, they down play it and appear charming to others in some cases. We all remember how they made us feel, the people in life who were meant to protect us. When the one person who were meant to be able to rely on in effectively your enemy from an exceptionally young age, it’s no wonder we are forever dealing with processing the confusion, disappointment and hurt.

I can’t forgive any of them

Nc for a few years now with mum. Things are coming to a head. She's been in hospital for about a month. Only had contact through the staff, nothing from her to me or me to her.
She's been deemed to no longer have capacity so I'm waiting on contact from SS regarding her needing a place in a care home.
No POA so not sure what happens next regarding selling her house for fees.
She's been notoriously difficult to deal with for decades, so I feel guilty leaving others to deal with her, but not guilty enough to get sucked back into her orbit.
Fuck, I just have no more headspace for any more shit. 🤯

@Getolderbutneverwiser
you sound very wise to me, I hear you and I wish you freedom and peace in your life

@Justmuddlingalong
you really shouldnt feel guilty for leaving the professionals to deal with her, they know how to handle & navigate all this stuff!
I'm not sure how it works with handling the POA things but I wonder if administering it at a distance will give you some sense of control or maybe closure?
Or it may feel like just another burden, in which case I'm pretty sure there will be a good few on here who'll be able to give you the benefit of their experiences

@Thesharkradar thank you, I don’t feel very wise most days, appreciate you all here so much!!

@Justmuddlingalong absolutely you should not feel guilty, though I know that is easy to say. I also don’t know how these things work without POA but I hope there are some set procedures in place which will need to be followed in order to facilitate these things and I hope very much that this needs minimal to no input from you. I’m sorry you are going through this, I hope SS can help get a resolve for you, much love.

I dont forgive mine either, but I am starting to let go of the anger I had towards them, I have made a detailed study of old diaries & letters, looking at my adolescence and early adulthood through the eyes of a person who is now grandmother aged. I saw such a lot that went over my head at the time, mother especially, no morals, no boundaries, lied through her teeth all the time.
That was just who they were, not all that bothered about me, wrapped up in their own lives.
Picking through it all, joining dots, looking at sequences of events & seeing what was really going on has helped me a great deal, I think it's a kind of 'knowledge is power' thing?