April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@pussycatinfluffyslippers see you in the ‘hot’ place! Mine’s a G&T!

@MonkeyfromManchester Agreed on accidentally leaving his phone behind or just hitting the block button.
It must be hard for you all, hopefully the therapist helps him see he is not responsible for her.
You said how she is angry about your trip to Paris with your mum. I think people like her (my mum included) hate the fact that there adult children who they know full well they have abused their entire life end up with a new support network/family. She's probably worried he's going to spill all.
Let's hope the brother also makes his escape one day soon.

It was only after I went NC with my now happily dead mother that my DH told me he'd had to go NC with his years earlier. We haven't really compared notes that much, they were very similar and very different in their "processes".
I wish he'd told me sooner, and I wish I'd gone NC a lot sooner.

For those with narc mothers, have you ever felt like you had a good relationship?

I have always felt something missing with my mother, that other people have so much better relationships with their daughters. I always thought it was my fault. Obviously I know it's not now.

As I become increasingly distant, I just feel the need to say 'look mum, we've never had a strong bond, let's stop fooling ourselves here' - I just feel the desire to call stuff out at a really top line level, I don't feel any need to go into the details of how she neglected and abused me over the years, but just matter of fact, what is there to miss?

@scroogemcfuckaduck can you deal with the fallout after saying something like that to her?

Mine denied everything, nothing I said happened ever did according to her. With a narc mother there is no point. She won't care and the best case scenario is that you are indifferent about her reaction and she'll just leave it at that.

I had the most evil thought @MonkeyfromManchester that MM could change his telephone number in The Hag's phone to divert her calls. Perhaps kick off proceedings with Buckingham Palace on 0303 123 7300. I hear they're quite adept at dealing with difficult people. Then he could move on to the Conservative Party HQ on 020 7222 9000. I mean, if they could handle Boris...

@scroogemcfuckaduck

I've not spoken to my covert narc mum for more than 2 months and (apart from some grenades lobbed my way by her and my overt narc dad which REALLY triggered me each time) I have felt more at peace and calmer in that time than ever. There's nothing that I've genuinely missed - because I wasn't getting anything except ridiculous expectations and anger. My therapist feels that I'm bouncing back more quickly after each grenade and I'm getting more decisive too.

Wishing all of us love and strength x

Long time lurker here - mainly because I keep telling myself it's not too bad (and I still feel I am perhaps being too sensitive as others have it much worse).

My mum was on holiday here staying at my house (I am from another country where she still lives). For years she kept trying to get me to disclose my feelings etc., mainly to then make fun of it to her friends, my stepdad and wider family.

And then today after dinner she suddenly and very randomly asked the right question ("Our relationship has deteriorated in the last two years, was there something specific that caused it?") - I was so shocked that I gave her an honest answer (below as I think would be too much detail). Shocked because it is normally just blaming me for not calling enough, not welcoming her enough, not being enough.

Long story short, it's been 4 hours of me trying to calm her down. There were tears, there were subtle threats of suicide, there was an attempt to leave for the airport immediately (my son would be very upset to wake up and not find her there with no proper goodbye), and a lot of blame. My trauma is not nearly as bad as hers, and I am a horrible person for telling her this and for sitting on it for two years, and really how could I have pretended to her like everything is fine. She thought I was her closest person in the world (we have not been close since I was at least 10, all I remember is lots of emotional and financial abuse), and I have ruined her life by telling her about my so-called trauma.

Don't really know why I'm posting - I just can't sleep and it's late and my husband is asleep and I just need to tell someone....

_

I had my son nearly two years ago - traumatic birth, very difficult breastfeeding journey which meant I had to supplement with formula even though I was desperate to breastfeed. He didn't gain back his (very low) birth weight until a month old and we had some very bad advice along the way. However, at about two week old we got an amazing lactation consultant who has put a plan in place and really changed things for the better. But the first couple of months have been an awful time.

My mum came over to be with me after the birth (I didn't ask and in fact did not want her there but I am very well trained to do as I'm told), so she has seen me struggling and crying and desperately trying everything I could. She had her own opinions - I shouldn't have given him formula because he didn't need it and I needed to stop supplementing immediately. I was also feeding him too often rather than every 4 hours. Thankfully at that point I already was following the plan so responded with "I am trying my best. I have got a specialist involved and am not looking for any more advice". At which point she screamed at me at the top of her lungs: "If you don't do what I say your milk will stop in a week!" Obviously, I then had to apologise and smooth things over.

He could have died if I listened to her. Luckily, I have ignored her shitty advice and continued to combination feed until my son was 16 months old (never managed to get to exclusive breastfeeding however hard I tried). It really was a turning point for me though and made me reconsider how much power I gave her over me and how I have always been the one apologising, the one making things better, the one offering peace.

I have since gone as low contact as I could - although it's not worked very well as she likes small kids and has been coming over for months on end.

Hello, I'm a long time lurker checking in (with this new name just for this thread). I'm going to read all the posts again properly, and hoping for some peace in my head one day from all the madness of my family.

That's genius!

@Vvvvvvvvvvvvvv You already know that your mother brings nothing but heartache and chaos to your life. After her performance yesterday, I would cut her off completely. It tells you everything you need to know. It’s all about HER. Always has been, always will be.

Your comment about “I keep telling myself it’s not too bad” is typical of those of us who have been conditioned to parental or any other kind of toxic family abuse over so many years. It’s the same as the boiling frog analogy.

The 4 hours you spent trying to calm her down was 4 hours of gold-plated narcissistic supply for her. She got the prize of watching you turn yourself inside out to make her feel better. And boy, will she make you pay.

You could choose to say “no more” and make this the last time you see or speak to her.

@Sicario you are a GENIUS!

For those with narc mothers, have you ever felt like you had a good relationship?

As my mother's behaviour was all I'd known I presumed that was how you behaved.
She had to criticise everything and everybody - even people she didn't know. For the first 30 years of my life I did the same and I wasn't until somebody I thought of a friend dropped me and I found out it was because I criticised everybody that I realised I was turning into her - an awful thought!

So I completely changed my outlook on people and became a much nicer person. So I suppose in a weird way she did me a favour - look at everything she did and do the opposite.

I can't remember there ever being a good relationship, it was literally like she hated me since birth. She's ended up with no one in life, she's awful to people and has ended up with no one in life. One of the last times I saw her she was horrendous (called a woman in B&Q a c#nt for not saying excuse me loud enough) I don't take it personally anymore, there's clearly something wrong with her but that doesn't give her the right to destroy everyone around her, vile woman.

For those with narc mothers, have you ever felt like you had a good relationship?

Yes I suppose at times. Now trying to work out how I feel about this. Why I now see it differently. What was ok, genuine and what might have been false. Always assumed that being infuriated with your mother was normal. Now when I hear about other mum/daughter connections - friends, work colleagues I think there is a difference. I know I don't have that. Someone I know quite well at work actually asked me if I had a mum....as in alive. Clearly whatever we were talking about warranted some reference to a mum/daughter relationship and she was aware I hadn't brought this into the conversation.

@RaraRachael I could have written this myself!!!

For many years I thought I had an ok relationship with her sometimes, when she was more reasonable and even slightly caring about me. But it would never last, maybe days, maybe a few weeks, until the mask slipped again. I can now see that this was just part of the abuse and what kept me attached. Because I desperately waited to feel a mother's love.

The thing she cared most about was giving me food I liked (or not give it as a punishment) and everytime I would leave after a visit I left with tons of treats. I now realise I literally tried to eat her 'love' and could never feel her love. I think she did it subconsciously to try and make up for her awful behaviour.

So no, I don't think we ever had a good relationship. Narcissists rarely change. She has bullied me throughout my life, disrespected my boundaries (she has no concept of other people's boundaries), put me down and gaslit me galore. She also liked to use triangulation, where she complained to me about my father and later about my niece (from toddler age) about their 'unreasonable' behaviour. In typical narcissist fashion the problem was always other people's reactions and not what she did to them that brought out that reaction.

Once she did this with my niece when she was only a toddler I saw much clearer. I couldn't imagine talking like that about a child and someone I love so much. Only the worst of people would do that.

Oh and I think I was a bit like my mother for many years simply because that's what I learnt and I lacked self awareness. I was the worst version of myself during the height of my mental illness. The more I healed the nicer I became. I still have many moments where I gain more self awareness and am absolutely horrified about some of my behaviour. But I can feel genuinely sorry and apologize, which she can't do.

@Twatalert yeah defo with you on the self awareness stuff, I was absolutely feral in my 20s, I carry so much shame around with me for all the things I did. Every girl models their mum, it's human nature. I'm trying to have as much self compassion as I can muster.

I have never had a good relationship with my mum, she was always a very cold person. Maybe she had some kind of post natal depression or maybe she is just loveless or maybe a bit of both. But I remember being full of love as a very young girl, trying to sing her songs and write her notes telling her I love her but it was met without affection. If my daughter did that to me (she's a bit young right now) then it would mean the world. These are some of my earliest memories and I think they stay with you for a reason. I do sometimes wonder how I was treated as a baby. Left to cry no doubt. She said she couldn't really be bothered to breast feed me. What I am trying to say is that a good bond starts at very young age and the mum needs to be invested, and it always just felt like she wasn't. As I got older it became a definite feeling of resentment that she was giving off, as soon as I was old enough she gave the things back to me that she did for me, I remember being told to start doing my own washing from a young age, and just feeling so confused. I was with some friends and their children recently - around 10/11 - and I realised how much basic stuff they still do for them, like tying shoe laces. I must have been the same age as them. She was more poisonous when I was younger with a bit of sadistic streak if you ask me, and she thinks I've forgotten.
I've written and rewritten a letter so many times. Because I've recently sent one to my dad confirming that we are NC and telling him he can't just invite himself over, and putting a boundary in place, I feel like it might be a good time to do the same with my mum. My approach would be just to call out the facts, the truths as I see it. No details, no blaming, very little emotion.
'I have complex ptsd because of my childhood'
'I know now I was emotionally neglected and mentally abused as a child and that our family dynamic was dysfunctional.'
'We've never had a strong bond.'
Etc
I find the whole decision whether to officiate the NC and to speak my truth - even if it's hard to hear for her (because it's bloody hard for me to carry around all this insight and shame). If I don't then I deny my inner child the validation she needs surely. The ultimate goal is to not have her anywhere near me and to stop her contacting me. It's highly unlikely she is going to acknowledge all her wrong doings, and additionally I wonder if she'd ever ask me to elaborate 🙉 🙈 🙊- unlikely. In some ways it's the most humane thing I can do. (I have some kind of healing fantasy she checks into therapy and does the work 😂 never going to happen. I do find narcs are particularly bad at self care, anyone find that?)

I also think with parents (divorced when I was 20ish) who have gone onto remarry or resettle with someone knew they don't like their skeletons in the cupboard to come out. They probably enjoy their rebrand, although I am sure the cracks have started to show for both of them.

Yes I do find my narc mother bad with self care. Her self care is to get obedience from everyone around her, even her husband. If you have a different opinion she accuses you of wanting an argument. And that she did a lot when I was a teen.

Somehow I think I got off lighter every since I moved abroad. Her big dream is to have her children all in the same town as her and I think on some level she knew id stop coming if she gave me too much BS so used her tactics on her husband and then my niece, never really my brother. I think that on some level she wants reassurance that I didn't leave because of them, which I absolutely did. This means both my parents never accepted my new home which I have had for almost 20 years. They still think I'm at some kind of pitstop.

On the sadistic streak, there have been moments I saw my mother pleased and smug about my sadness, anger or disappointment. I believe it happened she set me up to become angry, when she didn't stick to an agreement we had which she knew was important to me and I knew she hadn't just forgotten. The break of trust was excruciating for me and I was so upset as a young teen and she completely ignored me and looked through me.

She also saw me as competition to my father/her husband and then threw a tantrum when she felt he sided with me rather than her. Which loving mother does that?

I remember as a toddler she fed me the last spoons of a soup and put a peppercorn on the spoon. I bit into it and she couldn't have enjoyed it more. She was laughing.

And I was a toddler. I know this because I see the situation in the apartment we lived at at the time. We moved out there when I was 5 so I must have been a toddler when she did that. God knows how many more of such instances there were without me even realising.

As a small child when I didn't sleep in the evening, she came into the bedroom raging, took of her slipper and hit me. That kind of mother I have.

When we were little it was obvious even then that my mother's work was far more important than we were.
When my marriage ended "I had brought shame on her" and she would have liked nothing better than for me to fail miserably on my own. I think she was disappointed that I managed to buy and run a house whilst working.

As a parent the most important thing is for your children to be happy.
For her, her children's happiness was less important than what people would think of her.
She had very old fashioned views. I'm sure most people couldn't have cared less.

Definitely feel that sense of parents preferring you to fail @RaraRachael - mine certainly never did anything to ensure I succeeded.

The lack of genuine interest but at the same time nosy, though never offering encouragement or support.

Imagine being in competition with your kids? Imagine being jealous / envious of them as a child? Definitely felt this from my mum, specifically because my dad was overly interested in me when I was young. It was quite creepy but anyway it clearly drove her crazy and I was blamed.

So sorry about your sadistic mothers, they sound really really evil @RaraRachael @Twatalert

All of your parents sound awful.. I'm sorry for anyone having to deal with this. Really is a head fuck.
Talking about this on here the other day has made me remember something really disturbing. When I was about 5/6 and my brother was 2/3 my mum used to play dead. She'd literally lay on the hallway floor holding her breath until my brother noticed. He'd obviously be hysterical.. screaming hitting just pure terrified. I can remember being used to it and rolling my eyes telling him to ignore her (obviously he couldn't he was just a baby) but it also makes me wonder how I was treated as a baby to be so unbothered.
She was young when she had me (17) but married and had family around. Who knows. I still believe there's something seriously wrong with her but still it's excusable.