April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@Sicario 😂😂😂😂 re Aberdeen zoo.

We had a great time. Hag didn't ring after phone number drama. She attempted to love bomb nephews with a couple of calls. Sucking up attention because Hag sent them bribe money. The eldest who has learning difficulties doesn't get the games, but the younger one does and steers clear.

Great weekend with SIL. Mr. Monkey and SIL we're able to be really honest about the shit family for the first time andver. Nothing off limits. We had no idea about the extent of the abuse SIL had from vile Golden Boy BIL. It was good for her to talk about it. It was good for Mm to explain the toxic family in detail.

GB BIL apparently used to say to SIL that the Hag was the woman he truly loved. Like the fucking mafia! Hag apparently said “I can't understand why Gb behaved like that to you as he never saw things like that at home” to SIL after she started to talk about the abuse.

Hag etc are truly batshit. But great time with SIL.

Hi, I hope I’m not hijacking this post - I thought it might be the best place to post. I was hoping I could have some advice re; my 5 year old and potential contact with my mum (who I’m non contact with).

To put some context behind why I don’t see my mum - she was physically and emotionally abusive to both me and my sister, think ignoring for days, telling us she wished we had never been born, sending us off on hunts around the house for hours for things she insisted we had taken from her, not allowing us out of the house (even for school sometimes), cutting my very long hair off as punishment, giving pets away as punishment, making me wait so long for the bathroom that I weed on the floor- then making me clean it with a cloth and smearing it all over my face, laughing if I was upset and sneering at me saying ‘go on cry then’. The list goes on.

She has a habit of just cutting us off and not seeing us for months and months at a time at any perceived ‘sleight’ to her, except the last time this happened I just didn’t try and worm my way back in like I had previously done. This resulted in an A4 plastic wallet being posted through my letterbox with all my baby pictures in several months later- there was a note stating that she had no room for them anymore (she lived alone in a 2 bed house, and I lived with my partner and daughter in a 1 bed flat at the time). I still didn’t respond.

anyway, my daughter has now started asking about grandma - she sees my DH’s mother weekly on video calls and has started asking who grandma is and if we can go and see her. I don’t want her to, but I also don’t want to deny her the opportunity of seeing my mum if that’s what she wants.

I have no concerns about physical violence from my mum to her - I would be there at all times and it was more the emotional abuse that was at the forefront of my childhood. I’m also very concerned about my daughter being exposed to my mums expectations of how children should behave. For example my daughter is in the annoying phase of finding the word Willy and bums funny, she learnt the proper names for genetalia recently so finds it funny to use the word ‘penis’. As a child we werent allowed to say these sort of words, my mum was incredibly old fashioned and I remember once when she was washing me I laughed when she washed my bum and said it tickled- this resulted in her flicking the flannel into the bath, giving me the dirtiest look ever and telling me I would have to wash alone from that point on - followed by the silent treatment for days. I’m worried that my daughter will say these words (as she absolutely should be able to as she’s a child) and the response she will get, and how it will make her feel. I also worry that even if she does start to see my mum regularly that one day there will eventually be another perceived sleight which will result in my mum cutting all contact with her as she has done to me numerous times.

Just read Toadstools post and she mentions having hair cut out of spite. Did anyone else experience this ? My sister was allowed long hair but mine was cut short like a boys .

Yes when I was 11 was taken to hairdressers for first and only time (she liked to cut my hair) she chose the most ugly and unflattering haircut I got no say in the matter . Also chose me the most ugly clothes I also got no say and when I was 16 and got the child benefit and could chose my own everything I wore was criticised ‘why are you wearing that it doesn’t suit you’ not one nice word had ever passed her lips. Keep your daughter away she will do it to her at 5 my mum accused my daughter of bring a glsmour model as she had a strappy top on

@Toadstoools Just tell you child very calmly that you don't visit your mother. You can say you don't know where she lives if you don't want to get in to her not being very nice. My kids never met my father, who I was NC with. It wasn't a big deal. Even if they had asked to meet him I would have said no, because I am the adult, and it is my job to protect them from people like him regardless of their feelings on the matter.

You've said you don't want to stop her from seeing your mother if that's what she wants, but she's 5. At that age good parenting is about putting appropriate boundaries in place. No you can't play with matches, you can't run out into the road, you can't touch the hot oven, you can't eat nothing but cake for every meal, and no you can't spend time with adults who have history of being abusive to children.

I'm sorry your mother behaved that way, BTW, and you should be proud of the efforts you're making to do things differently.

Yes, chunks of my hair were cut off as a punishment.

I didn't go to a hairdresser until I was 16 and could travel there myself (we lived rurally) and pay for it.

@MadamePickle thank you for your reply. I think I know deep down this is the correct action (rereading my post it seems very obvious). I guess I don’t want to be that parent that has denied their child contact with a grandparent but as you said, and is clear in my post, I think it’s pretty clear that this wouldn’t really be in her best interests.

Im trying to make sure she knows her voice is heard - something that didn’t happen to me as a child, we were very much not heard, so I probably overcompensate in the way I try and allow her to make her own decisions when it’s appropriate to but have missed the mark with this one! Thank you.

Sorry to post again, she has asked several times now and I’ve always responded with ‘maybe one day’. Would you just say start saying I don’t know where she lives? I should have said this from day one but didn’t, and she knows she lives within a car rides distance.

I’m trying to work out if I belong here. I have a fraught relationship with my mum, I don’t enjoy spending time around her and I have historically felt guilty about that.

My mum was a single parent so I know it was hard for her. However, I feel that she never really joined the real world. When her marriage broke down, her dad paid off her mortgage, for example, and she kept the house. I’m not saying that I would like her to have struggled, more that I don’t think she understands how stressful having a mortgage etc is.

She used to insist on going abroad for 6 weeks every summer (she was a teacher). When I was 13, I told her I didn’t want to go anymore. She went without me every summer after that, leaving me home alone for the full 6 weeks. She left some cash behind for me and I had a part time job.

When I was applying to college, one of her close friends in the admissions department tampered with my application so it was rejected. I was allowed in on appeal. This same woman ended up being a supervisor in my form (ours was the only form in the year which had a supervisor, still no idea why), and also ended up being the one to hand my exam results to me (my mum was again abroad on her 6 week holiday). I got straight As in my A Levels (the highest grade you could get back then) and my mum’s friend was not happy about it. My mum is still friends with this woman.

She didn’t attend my graduation because it fell within the 6 week summer period. I had to take a friend with me instead.

I moved out as soon as I could and ended up in a crappy relationship. I’m now with someone wonderful and have a lovely family. However, my mum allowed some people to move into my family home, which was supposed to become our family home. We are now 2 years into a court process to try to get possession back. It has affected me in countless ways. We are living in my DP’s flat, which is lovely, but not a family home. Meanwhile my mum is living in a property I own, which would be much better suited to us as a family (it has a garden etc). She hasn’t offered to help us by swapping, which seems to me the most logical thing. I’m paying the mortgage (the mortgage company knows that my mum is there and is ok with it).

I’ve been thinking about all this lately and I’m struggling to be honest. I feel like she’s extremely selfish and I just don’t want to talk to her. I have recently started to refuse to buy things for her online (she is paranoid about online shopping) and to do things like dye her hair because I just don’t feel like she deserves my time or effort.

I guess what I’m asking is whether this is reasonable. I’m 6 months pregnant, the court case is later this month and tbh I just don’t want to stress myself out further by engaging with someone who is selfish and takes no responsibility for anything

@Toadstoools I was very straightforward with my kids and said we don't see him because he isn't a nice person. I wanted to be truthful about what sort of man he was but at the same time I didn't want to burden them with stuff that was beyond their level of comprehension or maturity, so I didn't expand on that until they were much older, and even then didn't go into detail or talk about it a lot. I think at 5 she will be beginning to understand that some people are bullies and that bullying is a bad thing - she'll be getting this message at school. So I might just say I don't see grandma because she's a bully.

BTW when it comes to decision making, I have tried to use a rule about whether or not the decision matters. So I always let them choose their own clothes, their own haircuts, toys, books etc. I listen when they talk about their interests, and make it clear that it's OK to like what they like. But I make the rules about the stuff that matters. You have to clean your teeth and eat some vegetables, wear a seatbelt in the car, you can't watch that TV programme/play that video game that's too old, these people are OK for you to spend time with, these people are not.

*Toadstools
*
Don't let your daughter have contact as she will poison her mind against you . I've a strong suspicion my mother has done this with my eldest son , resulting in me missing out on his graduation. My youngest son had been a bit off with me too . Earliest opportunity I get I'm going to ask him what's up . Also little tit bits have got back to me over the years concerning other family members. Stay away OP . Enjoy your family.

@MadamePickle thank you for your advice. I’ve probably made it sound like I let her run riot- I don’t, we have boundaries in place in terms of teeth brushing, meals etc but then have let her do things such as choose how she wants her hair, she’s allowed to pick all her own clothes etc. I just struggle sometimes because I know I don’t want to parent in the same way my mother did, but have no idea if what I’m doing is right as it’s not been role modelled to me.

Sometimes I sit in bed at night for hours wondering if I’ve traumatised her some way or another or not been affectionate enough. I guess if I care enough to worry about the sort of mum I am, I probably haven’t!

@Fruitynutcase thank you. I’m sorry to hear about your son. It’s only since I’ve had children I just can’t understand how someone could behave the way your mum has or other peoples mums have to their own children.

I think after rereading my post I had come to the conclusion that it was very clear this wasn’t a good idea and she doesn’t need to be a part of her life.

Thank you . I was an unwanted child and I felt the resentment every day . I can pick up on resentment in others toward me too. She will befriend your daughter alright . Your daughter will think she is amazing. But your mother will slowly drip poison in to her head . My DM did this with my eldest . She has got my youngest running round after her doing jobs despite her not really bothering with them when they were younger . They think she's great . She also voices her opinions about other family members through me , saying I have said this snd that . I haven't. But it's a clever way of saying what she thinks with no backlash on her . Think very carefully OP listen to your gut feeling.

@Toadstoools I generally do the opposite of what my parents did, that seems to work. 😁

Why exactly do you feel that saying yes and trying to somehow develop a relationship between your daughter and your mother is something you should do?

(I don't mean this in a cruel way, I think it might be helpful to dig into exactly why you feel like this is something you should be doing, or at least why taking steps to prevent it is making you feel so unsure of yourself.)

@Fruitynutcase OMG! My mum does the same thing! If she disagrees with someone she’ll say me or my siblings have said “whatever she really thinks” and it’s so awkward!

She’ll also do it the other way round where if she knows you’re insecure about something, she’ll casually say “so-and-so was asking about your… whatever that insecurity might be”.

It used to upset me so much thinking that all these people were coming up to my mum and prying/ criticising me. It’s only recently that it’s occurred to me that she’s just making it up to wind me up and make me feel self-conscious.

It's bullying . She's very good at loading the gun and firing the bullet too . She does do nice things but lets everyone know about it . She's good at taking credit too .

@Toadstoools @Fruitynutcase The hair thing? Yep, me too. I was forever getting mistaken for a boy, right up until I was 17 and started paying for my haircuts myself.

It was the same with clothes, I was dressed in boys coats and jeans for years (I was extremely thin until my mid 20s so could easily fit into them). My mother deliberately made me look as unappealing to the opposite sex as possible...she had so little faith in me, she thought I'd be having sex and getting pregnant if a boy so much as even looked at me twice.

I wasn't 'allowed' to choose my own clothes until I was nearly 18.

It's about control . She felt people compared me and my sister unfavourably so she had long hair and I had short . I had curls as a child that she got cut because she said it was uncontrollable. She also said that was when I lost my good looks . She would criticise me to people in front of me and behind my back and praise my sister up . She also said she wished my cousin was her daughter instead of me . I told her do you sow so shall you reap . She's a jealous woman never satisfied with what she has . My sister had brought he nothing but stress and worry yet she's idolised.

@Toadstoools A bit late to this but I would not allow contact between my child and mother - I'm non contact, and my now six year old knows that I don't see my mum because she wasn't kind.

My sister (the scapegoat) always had her hair cut short.

I hadn’t ever thought about the hair thing until now! My sister (golden child) had her hair long and I had mine cut super short by my mum. My mum didn’t let me have my hair long until I was 14. Until then I had a super short bob or pixie hair cut.

@Toadstoools it sounds like you know deep down that it wouldn’t be a good idea for your daughter to have contact with your mother. I am very low contact with my brothers so with my eldest I have explained to her briefly why, when she asked. Then it never came up again. With my youngest I haven’t had to say anything yet, but if I need to explain why we are not seeing or visiting uncles I will say “that’s not something we’re planning to do” then leave it at that until they’re older. I think a brief explanation for children on why they are not seeing certain family members can be good because it can also help them protect themselves. For example; my daughter had an incident where she was asked to greet my brothers’ in-laws. This was during a family funeral and I was quite upset so I wasn’t able to fully function. A few months after this my daughter told me that she was made to hug and kiss a bunch of people she hadn’t met before and they were all laughing at her and she felt uncomfortable . I had to then explain to her that if she is ever around my extended family again and in a room without me she should excuse herself to go to the bathroom and find me asap. This incident made me realise why it is important to have a brief conversation with children about toxic family members. Also, to have a method of getting a parent in the room should they find themselves without a parent. (My brother and his family treat my children who are mixed race as some type of alien objects of fascination to be laughed at and I can only assume this is what happened during the funeral incident but I will never know for sure).

@clarebear111 sorry you had to go through all that with your mum. A court case while you’re pregnant does sound a bit stressful. I have found it quite liberating to just move on from my family by cutting all the emotional and financial ties. I feel happier with less and building my own life. As you already have a place to live could you work with that? I think fighting for a piece of something that you feel you should have got could lead to more upset and trauma for you. Take care of yourself during pregnancy and after - it’s such a special time you’ll never get back.

@Toadstoools
If I could go back in time my DS would never meet my mum. I don't know why it took me so many years to go no contact so well done for the escaping while you're Dd Is so young.

I can also relate to the hair thing, I had naturally curly hair. Anyone with curly hair will tell you that you shouldn't brush it dry. It needs lots of conditioner and curl cream, she was a hairdresser so would have known this. Every morning she'd dry brush it and send me to school looking ridiculous so obviously a lot of name calling. I hated it.

@Frazzledgoat

Thankyou for your response.. I have been reading up on covert sexual abuse and it's blowing my mind and making me feel a-bit sick. What the fuck is wrong with these people?!?

@clarebear111 sorry, I just re-read your post and saw that you are paying the mortgage and own the property your mum is living in. I see why you are trying to get it back!

@clarebear111 That all sounds incredibly stressful. I think your feelings are entirely justified.

Covert sexual abuse. Never heard of it but it resonates with me. I have a couple of instances I felt so uncomfortable but couldn't call it sexual abuse. Well, turns out it was.

We used to stay over at my uncles house with his family when I was a child. When I was about 12 this creep put on porn on TV whilst his wife, my parents and I were in the living room still late at night. It made me so uncomfortable. I can't believe this happened.

On visits I shared a double bed with my cousin,his daughter. We are the same age. We went to bed and the adults would come in to say good night. We would lay on our backs as you do and this creep would grab my ankles and pull me to the foot end of the bed. And my legs would always be apart. I hated it and got really angry and asked him to stop and he wouldn't and my parents wouldn't back me up either. Apparently it was supposed to be a joke. It sat with me for so many years. I never knew what to call it. In hindsight I feel lucky the guy never came in at night and did other stuff.

I have a much younger cousin (not his daughter) as well and when she hit puberty he used to comment on her growing breasts. His wife would say that he has a thing with young girls. Shudder!!!! Pedo in the family.