April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

Social worker has been in contact regarding a guardianship order (Scotland) for my mum who I'm NC with.
Couple of questions,
A:would I have to deal with her in person at any point if I take it on?
B:If you've done it, would you do it again or just allow the local authority deal with it?
I'm trying to work out if I want to be involved before I ask my sibling who's also NC with her if they want to be a co-guardian with me. TIA.

Grief is hitting me hard today. Grief over the parents I deserved and never had. Grief over not feeling loved as a child.

I think I was triggered by my friend just coming back from a holiday with her parents. It made me realise again that I could never have that. It is summer. Everyone is out and about with family. And I don't have that. I can't have it.

I know that by keeping my distance from my parents I'm giving myself the best shot at life I could have. But still. I feel quite alone today. I'm having a good cry right now, but will try to get over it and do something nice for myself.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks for the chocolate and flowers. And kind words and reminder. Will take extra care of 'my little girl' today.

Hey Twatalert, all your posts resonate exactly with me, I think we're in a really similar situation. This weekend has been challenging but it was a milestone in that for pretty much the first time ever, I didn't respond to drama or guilt, nor behave according to expectations. I did what felt right to me. A strange feeling and I feel a bit wobbly today but I'm starting to see a chink of light. Does change feel possible for you? x

@grizzletopsy it gives me great comfort that my situation resonates with you, and others here. I feel connected to this community here.

Change is absolutely possible and I feel I am changing, growing, at a rapid rate. But it means accepting what is and letting go of my illusions of what I thought was or could have been. Grief can floor me, but I know it will pass. It may be just today and tomorrow, or just for a few hours, it will pass soon. I try to acknowledge it so I can process it, but I no longer slip into a deep depression.

I'm glad that you managed not to engage with drama or do something just because it is expected of you. It means you put yourself in a position to be your authentic self, and this sets you up for a happier future. X

@Twatalert , @rainbowsprite56, @thecatsmeows - your posts completely resonate and are all too familiar. I think it is because society has expectations of 'Happy Families' - family get-togethers, day trips out, holidays, meals, etc. This makes it so painful for us, especially as friends around us talk about their family meetups and how helpful and loving their parents are. But being NC or LC with family is not properly understood and is a taboo subject. You just can't talk about it or the truth to just anyone otherwise you get comments such as 'but you only have 1 mum/dad' or 'but it's you mum/dad' or 'well, they can all be a bit difficult at times' - ie minimising and excuses, which just make you feel worse.

I try to remember in my grief that it is not just us that have lost our parents - it is them that have lost daughters/sons/in-laws/grandchildren. Their collateral damage is worse. Even though I have expressly told my birth family my feelings and asked them to change - they resolutely refuse and instead lament to anyone who will listen, how selfish or disappointing I am or that I have MH issues and that they don't know what they possibly could have done wrong.

I'm coming to accept that I need to have realistic expectations of them. You can't polish a turd as they say!

I’ve been ok for a while but a thread in AIBU with a mum asking when to let her daughter shave her legs has just sent me right back to when I was the little girl with this, dark hair and pale skin and was self conscious of my leg hair. Took my mother’s razor from the side of the bath and got rid of it all.

When she saw my legs and asked me if I had shaved them I remembered my dad had told me earlier in the week that it was always better to tell the truth, so I did. Ended up being held down on the bed and pummelled repeatedly. Now I look back I just can’t understand it. Why was she so angry with a little girl? I can’t imagine treating a child like that.

Hello everyone,

I had so many moments of recognition and clarity whilst reading this wonderfully supportive thread. I've known for a long time that my family of origin was dysfunctional and abusive, but recognising and dealing with the emotional effects of that is something I've had to do gradually, sometimes with professional help. Finding and reading this thread has already been very helpful.

Being a child was scary for me. My practical, physical needs were sometimes met, sometimes not, but my emotional needs weren't even acknowledged. In fact I was blamed, shamed and labelled selfish for even having my own emotional needs. To protect myself, I became (to the outside world at least) incredibly self reliant and independent. My Mum began confiding in me about her marriage woes, detailing the domestic violence, the affairs, the pregnancies she terminated and so on. I was eight years old, but she talked to me as though I were an adult friend. It's true to say that I was expected to be a mini adult at all times and if I ever expressed a need to be treated like the child I was, I was given short shrift.

I never spoke up about anything unpleasant that happened to me when I was growing up, either at school or out in the world. There was simply no point. I knew my parents would either blame me and do nothing, or get involved, but act inappropriately and only make it worse. So I suffered in silence.

I spent many years feeling empty. I found it hard to trust and tended to push people away if they got too close. I desperately wanted emotional intimacy, but feared it greatly. It wasn't easy for those who finally managed to penetrate my armour - I'd repeatedly 'test' them, just so I could prove they didn't really love me after all! I spent so long believing that I wasn't a good person, I wasn't loveable (or even likeable), that I was inherently selfish and so on. My mental health has always been awful. I have a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder, but I genuinely believe I am traumatised, rather than mentally ill. Perhaps it's better to say that I think the trauma I lived through has caused me to have the symptoms of mental illness.

I am still trying to work through and deal with the ongoing emotional impact of having never felt safe as a child. Of never being valued as a person in my own right and instead being cast as 'the problem' by the very people who should have taken care of me. Not having had that care, nurture and so on could have meant I was unable to enjoy healthy relationships as an adult, but I'm happy to say I worked on myself and thankfully chose a loving, patient husband. We recently celebrated our 20th anniversary. We now have almost-adult children and being a Mum has been both the most challenging and rewarding role I've ever had. I've had to learn how to be a parent and learn how to help them shine, both as individuals and members of society. Without wanting to sound boastful, I think I've done a decent job.

I now have a distant relationship with my ageing parents. I don't discuss anything emotional or personal and I certainly don't ask them for anything. It was hard when the children were small and my parents offered to 'help.' We would have benefitted from support, but the cost and the risks of accepting it from them would have been too great. I keep my parents at arm's length and though there's part of me that would love to belatedly receive the care I've never had, I've resigned myself to the fact it won't happen.

Thanks for reading and most of all, thank you all for sharing. It helps.

@MsMoody what a horrible experience to have, especially at a time when your body is changing and you were figuring out what to do. I felt quite alone during the years I started puberty from around 11 onwards. I remember buying sanitary towels when I was ten and hiding them in my wardrobe in case I got my period. I had nobody I felt I could tell. My mum was always caught up in some drama and never available.

@ThePensivePig thanks for sharing. A lot of your experience resonates with me. We are also raising our children with minimal family contact and no family help. My partners family live abroad and my family have many issues. I sometimes try to remind myself how much I am doing for my children by breaking free of toxic family members. My dad has passed away and my mum is elderly and lives alone now so we do visit her but I avoid my toxic brothers and their families as much as possible.

I have recently been feeling an overwhelming sense of gratitude to myself and the people who have supported me along the way for the life I have now. It makes me cry when I think about how hopeless and scared I felt about my future when I was a little girl. I can’t quite believe it! I never thought I could or would have good things happen to me. I still feel like I don’t deserve good things and sometimes end up imagining the worst when something great happens. So I started a gratitude journal this year - I start my day by writing down 3 things I am grateful for. It’s helped me feel more positive and realise how good things can and do happen all the time.

Delurking as I think your post got missed in the rush...
My take is, if you dislike your mother, it's not in her interest for you to be involved in her care. So, being brutally straightforward - is there any other reason that you having guardianship for her has an upside?
From what you say, the answer is No.
(A counter example might be a realistic concern that some unscrupulous sibling gets guardianship and creams away your inheritance under some pretext. There's no suggestion of any such scenario in your post).

This isn't a direct answer to your question, I know.

But I can't see any reason from your pov or your mother's to do it. Only from the social worker's, as it's one less client to look after.

My thrupennyworth - don't do it.
Your decision though.

@Justmuddlingalong I wouldn't take on the guardianship and power of attorney. You'd have to take decisions regarding her care and her finances. Your might have to do this for years. I'm sure you're NC for bloody good reasons, getting involved and burdened with her care would dig up all sorts of traumatic memories and decisions you make would make you vulnerable to attacks from her. She will be perfectly cared for and decisions all made with her wellbeing in mind even if no family members take on the guardianship. There is a good thread in elderly parents I think called the cockroach cafe. Good Luck.

@Twatalert I hear you and send you love. Totally get the bereft feeling. It's not fair and we are missing out and will never have that love,affection and support. I don't think the pain ever goes away and I'm 51. I'd love a loving mother, one that I could turn to and to receive love and support. Instead I am fragile and damaged and will never have that. You're not alone and it is shit xxxxc

@ThePensivePig well done for breaking the cycle and having the strength to break free.

Your childhood story is so similar to mine x

@Twatalert I am totally with you. I feel sometimes summer is worse than even the festive period for feeling triggered by happy families.

Unless you have been through it it is a sadness that you just can't describe - just the stark contrast of seeing families out and our own situation

I just wanted to share something with you all that won't mean a lot to anyone else. My ds is 15 and asked over the weekend if I could show him how to shave. I know some people won't understand why that is a big deal, It is cos I could have never asked my parents how to shave, or asked them anything to be fair. Just shows the cycle stopped with me and I'm super proud of that

@rainbowsprite56 may I congratulate you? It's a massive thing to get asked how to shave by your teenager.

I couldn't ask. I hid my period for a long time.

@rainbowsprite56 thanks for sharing... this warmed my heart. You're right to be super proud as it takes lots of work on ourselves to break cycles :) These little moments can be reminders of how far we've come. Enjoy 💛

Hi, I'm just having one of those days that I feel angry about childhood experiences. I sometimes don't even know what triggers it and will be doing fine then suddenly feel all down. Sending hugs to anyone else feeling the same.

I did a name change as I forgot my login details and had to start a new account. I've found reading and posting here has made me feel less alone with all this stuff.

@learningtobe yes this is me today too. do you recall what has featured in your day today or yesterday and your feelings about it at the time?
I've had a great day in some measures but something has triggered me this evening. Happened while I was out at an activity. I had to get myself home afterwards so haven't been able to work out what and why. Definitely a feeling of shame, possibly anger/criticism. It fires a stress response. I know when I started to get freaked out at the event I was at so I can explore that. This is progress. Usually I collapse when I get home or the following day and have no idea why.

Hi again, I was on here a few days ago, and made a complete idiot of myself, having a massive reaction to my post being overlooked. I find being in this thread really makes me anxious, which I hope with time will change, because it's really helpful, and I feel I can understand and maybe could contribute.

If I can get through this without being a complete prat, I'd like to know what people have done in this very specific situation..

TL:DR - should I allow mother to send money for gifts for kids, even now we're nc?

3 months of nc with mother, and it's definitely helped in every way. The only issue is that I'm navigating the "firsts" of several scenarios, and not sure how to handle them. This one is about my ds and upcoming birthday.

We are abroad, and my DBrother texted to ask what ds would like for a gift. I gave him a specific option, and he could pay for one or two of the items. I've already bought so didn't matter to me which he does. This is often how we do it.
He was really pleased, and said, could one be from our mother and one from him/ his family, or both from him?

I wrote back saying "up to you".

But I don't know what the best/ most consistent way would be to go forward.

I've blocked her completely, and don't want her to keep using dB as a go-between, although that's absolutely for them to sort out.

He is very enmeshed, and still intent on trying to get on with her (he says she wasn't around when he was small, so is trying to make up for lost time, even though it's nearly broken him).

Do I allowed this background organising so she puts money in my account or his, and is therefore paying for gifts, which I then give my kids "from grandma".

Or do I say I don't want them having presents from her.

Any time before this year, I would've expected her to find a way to get at them (they're my reason for nc), but the world has conspired to make that more or less impossible (Geography, ill health, losing her email/contacts etc.).

I can't seem the harm, but there may be something obvious I'm missing?

@OctopusComplex
Sorry your post got missed. I saw it and didnt respond ironically because sometimes I do post and no one replies so I had developed the fear of not being welcome myself ( not specifically on this thread just in general ) so had decided not to post on MN for a bit for sanitys sake if that makes sense. It is my low self esteem talking I guess and it is hard to rise above it sometimes.
But anyway to the matter at hand! Personally I would refuse all offers of gifts for your kids from your mother. I think.it is a toe in the door and another way to try to manipulate you over time. Just my opinion but it will be stressful every christmas and birthday if you truly want to be NC.
Anyway take care and keep talking on here x

Hi @OctopusComplex an aside, it's sometimes hard to reply even if you want to if you don't have anything to give in response. Could be not knowing or triggering or whatever. But I know what you and @flapjackfairy mean. Anyway....good question about gifts.

Gifts are a huge source of stress for me both receiving and giving with certain family. There is a whole performance involved which I am trying to get out of. I think I would say our contact is low. Working on it being lower. If they stick to boundaries it will only be Christmas and birthdays this year. I don't have this reaction to gifting with other family and friends. I think it is because I've realised it is a currency of manipulation.

This includes their perceived right to communication updates about whether the gift is here yet. Even with bank transfer there is an expectation about explaing it's been bought and then the communication about the giving and the thank you and appreciation.

I'm in a similar position because sibling (possibly enmeshed/golden) sometimes gifts jointly with parents to my children. Not sure how this will work......no contact will ultimately mean no gifts and no relationship with uncle/aunt and cousins.

What will be the cost to your kids of the present 'from Grandma'? In my experience it comes with strings attached.

Hi @OctopusComplex

I have also experienced the gift dilemma with my brother.

A bit of background (you can skip this bit if you like)
My brother disappeared out of my life when I got married, as I married someone from a different race as my ethnic origin (I’m of south asian origin and everyone else in my family has had an arranged marriage). His reason for not attending our wedding he told me was that he doesn’t want his own children growing up thinking that a mixed race marriage is normal or acceptable. A decade after not hearing from him much he called me on the day I had my first child to congratulate me - it was a bit of a shock and as I was a bit overtaken by the fact that I had just had a baby it was a background event. Since this time he has been sending gifts occasionally for both my kids birthdays which has put me in an awkward position. If we run into him at my mothers house he still completely ignores my husband (not even a hello) and is generally not great to be around. Fundamentally he is racist and also quite sexist plus very old fashioned in his attitudes (although he is a couple of decades older than me so that is partly in play with his outlook).

What I have done about the gifts
I am very low contact with my brother and he still finds ways to have a dig at me whenever he can find the opportunity. The approach I’ve taken with gifts he sends my kids is to receive them and then donate them to charity (there are plenty of people in need). I usually send him a text saying ‘thanks for the gift’. I don’t tell my children about the gifts and we are low contact enough that I don’t think it would come up with them in conversation. I personally feel comfortable with this but I am not saying it’s the right way to go about doing things. To accept gifts, thank my brother and donate them feels like the option that uses the least amount of mental energy and also doesn’t create a big fuss around it - many of my family members thrive on drama. I am attempting to be as anti-drama as possible.

I agree with @HatchlingDragon comments on the idea that gifts can come with strings attached so I have had to be clear about setting boundaries and expectations (with myself too). My mother is into gifts being a way to either manipulate or rid herself of guilt. I ensure that I thank her for her gifts and tell myself at the same time this is just a gift (not a payment) so that when she oversteps a boundary I can tell her not to. So far, it is working and she is more respectful of these boundaries. Some of my behaviour was just the default role I played in the family (caregiver, helper, translator and therapist to my mum) since I was a young child so setting new boundaries has rocked the boat as other older siblings have had to take on some of this work too (and they don't like it!). I know that things will settle in time but for now while I set these boundaries I have taken a step back from the older judgemental siblings. I think I was seen as some kind of a convenient additional younger sister who will always take care of all the stuff. I actually also thought that was going to be my life when I was a young adult! A series of horrible panic attacks helped me see that it didn't have to be the case.

Long post but hope you manage to figure out something that works for you @OctopusComplex

As a side, I also sometimes feel insecure when no one replies to my post but all the posts (even the ones not replied to) help us all, so thanks for sharing :)

I'm not quite sure what triggered it. I have a couple of family members planning a short trip to visit us in a few weeks and found out the night before this low feeling - so maybe it's this. I get on ok with this part of the family but it still reminds me of wider family issues. How about you? Was it something at the event? It's great that you got yourself home - it definitely is progress when you can take some time to yourself in the moment rather than let it build up.