April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@mumofmanydaughterofone Sounds like your DH is heading for the kind of situation that long-term poster @MonkeyfromManchester has dealt with for years. She calls her MIL "The Hag" and her behaviour is awful. Her husband has been in therapy to help him see the light with his mother. Maybe your DH could consider engaging a therapist to help him unpack this totally toxic relationship.

For your part, keep your MIL at arms length and make sure you have rock-solid boundaries. Her behaviour will certainly worsen as she gets older.

@mumofmanydaughterofone yep, the toxic mother in law completely resonates with me. My MIL aka The Hag has enmeshed her sons as a consequence, one is a slave, one has disappeared off the face of the earth, and Mr Monkey has now gone low contact..

She stayed with us off and on due to illness and flat renovations over the last three years. Never again. She's abusive and toxic. I'm now NC and I don't give a flying fuck.

I'm now honest with Mr Monkey, I had therapy and MM is now in therapy which has helped him immeasurably and he sees it all now.

She still rings him countless times at work - not here when I'm here, I wonder why 😂 - but he's good at putting down the phone when she gets abusive. The manipulation no longer works.

She honestly would like him to join the servants eg slave son. She does nothing. I sorted carers, Slave Son does finances and normal medical appointments (he's disabled) and MM does hospital appointments. Somehow this isn't enough.

The latest is trying to force MM into doing her laundry, he's been brilliant.

I don't have time and you have carers.

FFS.

She's furious and is trying the well used tactics of screaming and poor me antics, guilt tripping etc etc Mr Monkey sees it all.

My advice is you keep keeping well away, don't engage directly and be careful what you say to your husband as it will become a battle.
Empower yourself as a priority so you're stronger.

These people are lethal when they know you're taking them on and will undermine you at every turn. Really educate Yourself about narcissism and bide your time. Keep talking here and yes, gently encourage your husband to seek therapy or read about it. This forum has been a LIFELINE for me.

I don't want to say its 'nice' to find you as there are some horrible experiences shared here but it's nice to know I'm not alone and not going crazy.
@MonkeyfromManchester I think my OH is a long way from therapy - this is his normal - occasionally he sees it's not right and we've talked about how we never want our kids to feel about us the way he does about her.
I'm on a breezy LC currently - if I have to see her I keep all conversations light and give no info. I think I'm almost disadvantaged in this set-up by having not experienced it before - early days I genuinely thought I'd misheard or was being too sensitive. I struggle to think it's malicious because i can't imagine really wanting to hurt someone you love like that - OH has quite delicate mental health (depression anxiety - hmmm wonder where that stems from) so I don't want to get into a battle with him over his mother (when I've raised it in the past I get 'she didn't mean it like that'; 'she wouldn't do that' or my favourite 'it's because she's scared of you' - yes because the fact my OH and children love me, I have a good job and a good relationship with my family is terrifying)
The guilt tripping is constant and so well practised and ingrained he can't help but react and I've made the mistake (many times) in the past of thinking I'm being unfair and letting her back in - this time I'm standing firm.
I need to get away from feeling one day she'll die and then I'll get our life back - how horrible is that?

That's a lovely post, Tipping.

Just popping in to "record" something, almost so I know it really happened.

Hadn't seen my parents this year but realised my mum was in town when I was. I thought 5 minutes having a cup of tea in a neutral location would be fine.

I was there perhaps 20 minutes. I didn't manage to finish a sentence. She would not have learned anything about me or my children at all.

I do a job she disapproves of (think something along the lines of drug rehabilitation worker or parole officer). I didn't talk about that but, 5 minutes in, she shouted, "don't talk to me about your job, you know I disapprove!" She has been the same about all the jobs me and my closest in age sibling have done in our lives. Neither of us has ever had a dodgy job.

She then started a monologue about the dark circles around my eyes. I mean, they do exist. She just kept saying, "it's nothing to do with being tired, they're just always there aren't they, those big grey rings".

So that was nice!

I have been feeling better in myself generally. The Golden Child (still living at home, everything done for them) keeps engineering reasons why I should visit, such as printing stuff out for me but then saying I must drive down to pick it up. I haven't been.

@tippinggtowardsinfinity
What a wonderfully eloquent post. You sound amazing ! And what a great life you have built for yourself and your family. x

@tippinggtowardsinfinity this is an encouraging post - thanks! Like you said there is immense grieving going NC and not a win-lose situation but more about prioritising yourself and loved ones.

I'm going through waves of grieving as I move to going low contact with family members - started with the most damaging sibling first and now a few laters have recognised there are more family members causing continious stress to me.

@tippinggtowardsinfinity I found your post deeply moving. I have never heard that word before - deracinating - and had to look it up. It is exactly right, to be uprooted from everything we knew. I have been NC with my entire FOO for years now. I found comfort and solidarity in your story, so thank you for that.

I can't bring myself to say much about my dysfunctional family, vile toxic narc mum and her enabler my father, both were alcoholics most my life, they no longer drink but their behavior hasn't improved. I have been NC for long periods of my adult life but drawn back in 10 years ago when she got parkinson's. I have kept physical distance but accepted regular phone calls to keep her off my dad's back.
NC again since January after 5 months of truly disgusting behavior, spite and vitriol. I get regular ansafone mssgs crying and weeping, we miss you so much blah blah. At the weekend I had a late 9.30pm mssg from mum carrying on about how much she would love to watch Eurovision while on phone so we could chat about it 😂 I have never watched it since a child in the 1960's which if she ever paid attention she would know, followed by a stern mssg from father telling me to bloody well answer the phone and do as I'm told!
Pretty much sums them up!
I can't say it doesn't hurt sometimes and would like to tell them what I really think of them but just can't be bothered, waste of breath and energy.
Iv been reading stately homes for a year and it is a shocking insight into toxic narc families.
As I'm typing they are leaving another message, it tortures them not being able to abuse me.

I have blocked them on everything except my work phone straight to voicemail. I finally reached a place where I feel zero responsibility or sympathy. I blocked siblings and made it clear I would not be attending funerals. I made the mistake of believing she only had couple of years left and despite my dad being weak and an enabler I felt sorry for him. I won't make that mistake again, I am on to him as well. They are not in good health it will be a relief when they have gone. I have totally blocked before but that feeds into her drama fetish, phoning the police that I am being held against my will, operator interrupting my calls as fault reported [back in the days when there were operators] calling my husband etc this way she can leave messages to her hearts content knowing I don't care. I can feel her stamping her feet when she can't whine, cajole, bully and cry to get her own way. I just don't care.

I have been lurking and reading for a long while and have posted once or twice before. I am truly amazed by the strength of others on this thread and want you all to know your stories move me deeply.
I suppose I am the 'golden child' but not in the typical sense. I still endure abuse from my mother, especially as a teen, but I have been maintaining a superficial relationship for years, protecting myself from her which has been working fine.
My amazing little sister, just one year younger than me has always been considered 'the problem child'. We are extremely close now although she has moved away. She has just yesterday gone nc with our mother, telling her the reasons why and giving examples of abuse which of course has all been denied.
My mother is now sending me screenshots of my sister's messages, claiming to have apologised (she hasn't) and playing the victim. I don't know what to do or how to respond and for many reasons (one being my own lack of strength) I'm not yet prepared or able to go nc myself but of course am not willing to listen to her accuse my sister of lying. So far it's lots of 'I'm sorry if did that although I don't remember. Funny you remember that but you don't remember x, y and z'. I want say, 'yes but you did do those things to both of us, we both remember.' but am selfishly still scared of her and the repercussions it would have.
I'm not sure what I'm asking really. I just knew I could share here and feel supported.

@User65412 it's good that you and your sister support each other! I really wish I had this relationship with my sibling.

It seems this is a good opportunity to set boundaries with your mother. This is between your sister and your mother and you don't have to entertain your mother sending screenshots etc. Id just say 'i won't discuss with you the situation between you and sister and will not respond or read any messages related to it'. And then stick with this and ignore.

I would really try not to reason with her because she can't be reasoned with. You'll never be able to convince her of her faults because as far as she's concerned your sister is the problem!

@Twatalert you are so right. Unfortunately, because I've been maintaining the false relationships for years my mother has made the mistake of thinking I actually care or that I'm even on her 'side'. I think I'll do what you suggest and say I won't discuss it with her.
If she actually asks me if I remember these things I'll be inclined to tell the truth. It is like I'm 'looking for an excuse' to go nc and waiting for her to do something big to justify it (just like I've read about!)
I am indeed so fortunate to be close with my sister and thankfully we are both able to see our mother for what she is and support eachother through the process. I'm hoping I can see her with our kids more easily as she would never want to come over or join us if our mother was there.

@User65412 I think it's great that you are able to have a relationship with your sister. I am the 'problem daughter' and my older sister is the 'golden child', which has led to a lack of understanding between us at times. It's beginning to improve in recent years.

There's this thing I read that compares a family to one of those baby mobiles you hang above a cot. Each part of the mobile has its place and the whole thing is balanced (even if each member is not happy they accept the status quo). When someone changes their behaviour or leaves or a new person is added, then the whole mobile slides out of balance. It feels like your sister going NC has caused this to happen.

Look after yourself, be kind to yourself and maybe take a pause without reacting for now (I say this as someone who needs to do this more often!). Maybe you will need to set up new boundaries with your mum or reduce contact or have more emotional boundaries with her.

I have sometimes said to my mum that I don't want to talk about wider family issues. I have also recently told her that I have chosen not to share toxic behaviour from other family members with her because I am choosing not to (it's not because it's not happening). In my case my mum has expectations or judgements about my reduced contact with my narcissist brothers and their flying monkeys, so it was important to share with her that there has been toxic behaviour (without going into details) and I don't want to talk about it further. This worked! She doesn't expect me to play happy families with these family members anymore. Maybe this is something to share with your younger sister - that you're there for her and don't want your mum's behaviour to come between you. Sometimes some family members can ruin the relationships that are going ok (and I think they want that to happen).

None of this might be relevant to you but I thought I would share in case it's helpful in anyway :)

Thanks @tippinggtowardsinfinity I'm going to give that a listen later.
It's all just so complicated, isn't it? I certainly don't feel like the golden child although that's how it looks from the outside. She regularly boasts about my achievements to others having giving me no support to get where I am. My mother's first baby died at 4 months old and we all (a brother as well) feel that we've never lived up to who that child could have been, so she's the 'golden child' if that makes sense?
And without sounding like I'm making excuses, we have a much younger adopted sister with complex needs. My older sister and I agreed years ago that we would be the positive influence in her life. I am literally the only person she has outside of the narc and her husband. I've read that this doesn't matter, and that nc won't harm them as much as staying in touch but I just can't bring myself to abandon her. I work in a safeguarding role and I feel that I am safeguarding her by being in her life and that she'll have somewhere to come when she's old enough. If I have no contact with her until she's an adult, I fear the damage will have already been done.
I know what the right thing to do is and I just wish I was strong enough.

Hello 👋🏻

I'm new to this thread. I had posted this else where but think this could be a better place for it.

My parents have a pretty dysfunctional relationship. It has always been the same so their behaviour is "normal" to me.

However over the last five or so years I've become so tired of the dynamic.
So now when DM turns up and wants to spend a whole afternoon complaining about DF I don't engage and change the subject.

Tbh DF definitely has huge failings in the relationship. But I now also feel DM has martyred herself and enjoys being the victim somewhat.

DM is lovely but I do feel she can be overly dramatic at times.

DF is a charismatic person who loves us but is ultimately quite selfish. However he is still my dad.

I am coming to the realisation that however terrible my DM feels DF is to her, it's not really my business. I feel I have been privy to too much for far too long. To the point I almost feel like I've been a pawn since childhood and burden. It's made me very distant from DF, and DM to an extent too.

I just want to be their child and not DM confidant/sounding board/counsellor

@Whyemseeaye Welcome to Stately Homes!

I also experienced what you have, 'parentification', basically the role reversal of what should be the true relationship between a parent and child. Mine was also from my narcissist mother, who started using me as her counsellor/dumping ground when I was about 10 - also the father started working abroad. He took employment abroad to get away from family life, he'd done it for 10 years and had had enough, he'd never actually wanted children in the first place. They eventually split when I was 21, when my father left for another woman (he'd had affairs the whole 23 years they were married)....my father had even tried abandoning us on the other side of the world when I was 12, his plan failed at the last mintue. My mother the martyr still stayed with him, even though he admitted what he'd tried to straight away. Neither of them gave a flying fuck (and my mother still doesn't) how much they ruined mine and my two brother's childhood.

I'm 55 now and I've been no contact with my father for 34 years and very low contact with my mother for 25. I've not actually seen her for 13 years, a phone call every month or so is all my mental health can stand (I'm bipolar).

Dr Ramani on YouTube is very good on all things to do with shitty parents, I highly recommend having a look at her videos.

*also the time my father started working abroad