What is infidelity?

[ItsGraceActually]

You know, many some men can convince themselves it's only cheating if there was penetrative sex ... some women people feel betrayed if their DP so much as hugs another. Then there's the whole emotional affair.

Very lol, Shiney

Cloudy, it sounds as though you're doing the only wise thing - and being brave. Wishing you all the good luck & reliable support you need ...

Coolfonz, I still think a one-off shag is less threatening than an exclusively close relationship with someone else. BUT I'd still want full disclosure (honesty) - and the fallout from that could be hideous! So it's far stricter rules all round for me in future, I fear.

The business of sexual exclusivity gets incredibly complicated when one partner is totally unwilling/unable to have sex for an extended time. What then? And isn't an emotional affair more likely under those circs?

Personally I would want zero disclosure.

They make radios don't they?

"Okay DW this is the truth, I didn't have an emotional affair with neigbour's wife, I just shagged her brains out, just the once and never ever had anything to do with her".....what a great line...wish I had thought of it before ...just kidding.

...don't really know the answer...one man's flirting is another's cheating?

Does anyone think that there is are diff. levels of "forgivability"? So a DP who is sexually frustrated at home versus a DP who isn't? I have no answers, only questions....

Shineon- often people get less bothered with age. Do you mind me asking why you are moe bothered these days?

I think it's so many things to so many people. I started a thread recently about a male friend who had confided in me about the state of his marriage and many posters felt he was a shit/abusive/disresprectful to his marriage etc and was probably wanting to start an affair with me.

So something that I felt was quite acceptable clearly was way beyond what others were comfortable with.

My own dh has talked about people havng affairs and said that he might not have a huge problem with the idea of someone else having sex with me but would be devastated by the inevitable lies and deceit.

We're an interesting lot, us humans, aren't we?

I think you get less tolerant of crap from other people as you get older, TDiddy. You know you can manage just fine on your own, and that you already have one arsehole and don't need another one. That's how I feel anyway.

I think as I get older, I am more realistic/less idealistic about human frailty; about desire; and about life being very short. My advice to DCs will be that sex with love is great but I will not judge another who finds sex without love

Do you mean you'd endorse 'social sex' for your DCs, TD (which would be a supportive message to young people in our times, imo)? Or that you'd want them to get the message it may not be possible to find both at the same time, in the same person?

I have to say either - or both - would have been a lot more helpful to me! Though, fucked-up as mine were, I shouldn't imagine many parents in the 60s & 70s got that one right.

Interesting point about becoming more or less tolerant as we age. I had almost no boundaries growing up, and far too few later. So I'm attempting to stake out my ground now, in later life, before I run out of time!

Maybe it works the other way around for people whose lives have been somewhat more emotionally & psychologically functional?

Sex without love is just a glorified wank at the end of the day though, even when it's good. I would hope that by the time you get to your thirties or forties, you would value the main relationship in your life a bit more than a bunk-up with somebody else, and losing your integrity by lying about it. I'd rather enjoy great sex with the person I'm with than chuck everything away for a one-nighter, and if the person I'm with doesn't feel the same way, then I can't be arsed wasting my time with them.

I guess that I would want to say to DC that fulfilment including relationships (incl. sex) is important. I don't think that I would condemn nor endorse "social sex". I guess that I would push safe sex message but apart from that discourage guilt and too much self consciousness. I would also push the usual message that sex and love together can be fantastic ....but in the meantime lighten up.

Portia, what if the person you're with couldn't do great sex any more? Or wouldn't?

My best friend died slowly, from cancer. She expressly forbade her H from seeking 'relief' elsewhere. I believe he respected her wish (which was odd, as he was something of a philanderer while she was well.) Through her final 4-5 years, he was pretty much without emotional OR physical intimacy. It did torment him. I understood her, and felt sorry for him.

What if that illness went on for, not 5 years, but 15 or 25? Do the rules change?

Oooh, yes, TD, write it!

I don't know really, Grace. I suppose you'd have to work it out between yourselves. I can't really see myself deriving great comfort from sex with someone else while my partner was seriously ill though. And I can't see him refusing to somehow shag me while there was breath in his body

Heh. Gotta be the perfect way to go, Portia, if you can manage it!

Probably just stuff that's outside an individual couple's previously-discussed agreement. It's not only impossible but stupid to try to insist on one-size-fits-all rules. It's thoroughly stupid to assume (with no discussion at all) that your partner shares your definitions of monogamy/fidelity and breaches thereof.
Some swingers, for instance, have loads of sex with loads of people in swingers clubs but might consider it a breach of boundaries for one of an acknowledged swinging couple to arrange a secret meeting for sex with someone else. Other people might regard a friendly hug between work colleages as BWAAAAHHHH! ADULTERY!

ItsGraceActuall

Was thinking what my emotions would be if DW cheated.

Well I would probably feel jealous. I would wonder why she was satisfied!! ..i am a bloke so ego kicks in...

I would wonder how I fitted in going forward...I would see her differently...BUT she wouldn't suddenly become a bad person as she isn't...and can't become a bad person just because she gratified herself even if there is a breakdown of trust....

[...a tiny tiny bit of me will feel pleased that she is fulfilling herself as she is not just a wife but also a lifetime friend...but I daresay that other emotions are likely to be stronger]

TDiddy - you're a bit of a hero!

My dcws are mid-teens now but certainly when they were little if I'd been tempted to have an affair I would've felt that I was being 'unfaithful' to them, too.

I'm nearly 50 now (will have to name change!) and might be more tempted without the same tie to the children. I still think I'd probably have to discuss it with dh first to see if he minded!

Hijack

Cloudy I'm not sure that I can receive PM's but you are welcome to contact me via: eco . mouse @ live . co . uk (alloneword!).

Regarding 'different levels of forgivability'?

NO! Because, a philanderer will always find an excuse. I firmly believe that to attempt to repair or recover a relationship before either partner turns to a third party is the respectful, considerate and 'right' way to go about things.
If a relationship becomes untenable, so be it, end it and have the courage to do so in a kind manner because nothing necessitates the kind of pain that the betrayal of infidelity can cause.